Donner Arena 2000 - possibly the best UI on a small modeler?

[Sascha Franck]

I haven't found this thing being mentioned here, but IMO, at least given all information available without being able to touch it myself, it's got *the* single best interface of all small size modelers by far - at friggin' €260 or so!
- Dedicated on/off/selection knob for each block (reminding me a lot of my old and trusty GT-10, which was a breeze to edit just because of that).
- 5 parameter encoders.
- Mobile OS editor using Bluetooth.

No, it's got no touchscreen, but given the fixed block style and single serial chain layout, it might be irrelevant, plus you can still use the mobile editor.
From all I know it's also got some useful functions such as being able to globally en- or disable the cab block (even per output pair).
Further it's got USB-C (apparently this still isn't a standard everywhere...), aux in and BT audio, which should be great for jamming around.

There's some YT videos demonstrating the sound (which, well, shows that it's not a high end unit, but it might get quite a bit better with decent IRs), but I'm not trying to make anyone buy this thing or consider buying it myself (well, tbh, this could be a great backup/backstage/hotel unit), I'm just starting this thread because IMO they absolutely nailed pretty much all typical UI issues almost perfectly. From all I have seen, navigating and editing this unit is absolutely kickass, it really doesn't get any more elegant in that league.

Arena 2000 - Donner

Donner Arena2000 multi-effects pedal features the FVACM tone-processing technology with 278 effects, 80 amp models, 50 cabinet IR models.

www.donnermusic.com

This here isn't a good video to demonstrate the sound, but it covers the UI aspects better than the other videos I've seen:


I want everybody coming up with small, gigbag sized modeling boxes to get as much inspiration as possible from this unit.

And well, talking about intellectual property theft; it seems that this is a genuine Donner design. At least I haven't found anything that might've served as a blueprint.

 

[the-trooper]

Not trying to say anything bad about this unit, but there are at least three units like this on the market. They're all the same (three switches, pedal, dedicated buttons for every block...) and are probably exactly the same unit in a different casing.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Not trying to say anything bad about this unit, but there are at least three units like this on the market. They're all the same (three switches, pedal, dedicated buttons for every block...) and are probably exactly the same unit in a different casing.

Which ones?

 

[Orvillain]

And well, talking about intellectual property theft; it seems that this is a genuine Donner design. At least I haven't found anything that might've served as a blueprint.

It looks cool, but there is a lot of Helix in there.

 

[laxu]

Yeah it seems like a pretty decent solution for what this box can do. The knobs seem to require a lot of turning to adjust settings though, so they probably don't have acceleration implemented.

I do like the dedicated buttons for accessing the main blocks any time. Helix has the Amp button and its capacitive footswitches can usually get you to the block you need. Fractal's A-E knob double click shortcuts could work but they only work on the Home screen so they are not good for going quickly to e.g Amp vs Delay as you need to go to the Home screen first and it's not as consistent to double click them.

But overall this highlights some aspects that are weirdly more modern on the cheaper, or lower tier modelers than the top tier units on the market.

 

[Sascha Franck]

It looks cool, but there is a lot of Helix in there.

Pardon? Going for the DI impersonation here?

 

[Sascha Franck]

The knobs seem to require a lot of turning to adjust settings though, so they probably don't have acceleration implemented.

Could be. And I'm in no way saying that the unit would be great, simply because of no first hand experience - just that the main "UI objects" seem to be done quite well.

Helix has the Amp button and its capacitive footswitches can usually get you to the block you need.

Yeah. But I was running out of them all the time - especially as the blocks I usually liked to edit weren't necessarily the same I wanted to switch in my 10/stomp or 4/4 stomp/snapshot layouts (which is why I'd loved a second stomp page, allowing for assignments I'd likely only ever would use when editing). Absolutely loved the amp button, fwiw.

 

[Lysander]

Which ones?

Looks pretty much identical to the Moore GE 200. There's also products from Valeton, Harley-Benton and Sonicake which I'm 99% certain are the exact same hardware & software under the hood - cosmetic differences aside.

 

[the-trooper]

Which ones?

I didn't keep track of exact names, but they're all based on Mooer GE200 (or look like it at least).
Valeton has one, Sonicake has one, Nux has one (MG 30), Harley Benton has one.

 

[Lysander]

Valeton has one, Sonicake has one, Nux has one (MG 30), Harley Benton has one.

FWIW, Nux and Hotone seem to be the only "low cost" brands which are developing original products. Don't think they're re-using Moore IP.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Looks pretty much identical to the Moore GE 200.

Not even remotely.

 

[CBHScott]

Looks pretty much identical to the Moore GE 200. There's also products from Valeton, Harley-Benton and Sonicake which I'm 99% certain are the exact same hardware & software under the hood - cosmetic differences aside.

Yup.

I didn't keep track of exact names, but they're all based on Mooer GE200 (or look like it at least).
Valeton has one, Sonicake has one, Nux has one (MG 30), Harley Benton has one.

All of the above are the same company except for Nu-X, which is a separate, unrelated company.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Dudes, seriously, if you think this is close to the GE 200, well, I really don't know what to say anymore... because, well...

The Donner has 5 (in words: FIVE!) encoders, all instantly mapped to the most relevant block parameters once you select a block. The GE? 1 (ONE!).
To edit, say, the most essential parameters of a drive block, namely gain and level, you'd have to flip between pages EVERY time on the GE if you only wanted to adjust the output of the drive to suit different gain settings. With the Arena, you'd adjust things just as on a pedal.
And let's not even get started with amp blocks. Typically, there'd likely be 5 parameters: gain, level, bass, mid, treble. These are magically mapped to the 5 encoders below the screen of the Arena, so adjusting them is just a breeze. And now think about what finetuning each paramter just 2-3 times would look like on the GE. Every bit the same for each and every other block with more than one single relevant parameter (hence for pretty much everything).
Bottomline: We're talking analog-alike knob access vs. an absolutely nervewrecking, endless clickfest!

And as if that wasn't enough already, add to this there's no mobile editing for the GE 200.

Even outputwise, these things have nothing in common. There's dedicated balanced XLR outs on the Donner. And while you might be like "uh, that's just a stereo DI box away from the GE" - it's not, simply because you can select which outs get the cab simulation on the Arena and which don't. Depending on your use case, that might become a very significant difference! XLR outs feature a ground lift option, too.

Next, there's 2 additional external switch options vs. just one on the GE.

Next, there's a real MIDI input on the Arena.

So, are you really telling me this is "pretty much identical" to the GE 200?

 

[Sascha Franck]

And fwiw, @the-trooper - take a look at your signature. What does it say?

 

[Sascha Franck]

Drum machine and exp pedal! That beats the FM3

Well, while I'm familiar with snarky comments - this thread is about UIs and their related functionality. And it terms of that, every FAS device possibly pales in comparison.

 

[Lysander]

So, are you really telling me this is "pretty much identical" to the GE 200?

Well, depends on your definition of "pretty much", but... yes? We're talking about all small tweaks (I/O, number of knobs, connectivity) over the exact same concept, engine and workflow.

Now, I'm not saying the Donner implementation isn't great, nor that it sounds bad. But there's a reason why there're half a dozen unknown brands out there putting out products you have to squint not to confuse with Mooer.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Well, depends on your definition of "pretty much", but... yes? We're talking about all small tweaks (I/O, number of knobs, connectivity) over the exact same concept, engine and workflow.

No, we're not. There's a rather substantial difference in the internal architecture in case you can have two separate pairs of outputs, one with and the other without cab simulation.
And as far as the workflow goes, see above - a handful more of knobs goes a looong way.
Regarding the engine - well, you'd have to compare them before being able to tell.

Apart from all that, there's zero proof about the source PCB /w code being of Mooer origin anyway. After all, if anyone, it was Mooer caught in terms of intellectual property theft (from EHX) with their pants way down.

So, as far as whatever available factual evidence goes, it's rather unlikely this is based on the GE 200. Perhaps they're both using the same generic base model chip/PCB/software, though - but even in that case, it still doesn't need to be of Mooer origin.

 

[Sascha Franck]

And fwiw, not even the GE 300, which has both TS and XLR outs, allows for separate cab on/off settings per output (which they certainly wouldve added in case it'd be the same thing as the Arena 2000).

 

[Lysander]

Dude, Mooer is clearly licensing their hardware and software to OEMs. The only thing shocking about this fact is that it's likely the first time we see it happening for modeling devices.

Donner Arena 2000 is a mish-mash of features from Mooer GE 200 & 300.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Donner Arena 2000 is a mish-mash of features from Mooer GE 200 & 300.

No, it's not. Very clearly not. The Arena has *additional* functions the Mooers don't have.
But you will likely not get that in case you haven't gotten it yet.
Also: Where's any evidence for your claims? So far you're just making things up on your own.