Clipping In The Axe III

[TSJMajesty]

I make my presets by tweaking factory ones. So I'll start there.

I play a Majesty, which I suppose with the 20 dB boost engaged is pretty hot, as I have to turn the 'Input 1/Instrument' level on the Input Page of the I/O Setup page all the way down to 3.9% to get the Clip indicator to stop showing up.

That being done a long time ago, I assumed nothing from a factory preset would cause clipping, but I think it still was. From one of my tweaked JP Rig 2023 presets, on one of the clean scenes I was getting an odd "overtone" that sounded like a bit of clipping if I picked the notes anything above a very light touch.

Someone had posted a thread at Fractal claiming he could still see his waveform clipping, so he turned the Input Block down to something like -20, and/or the same thing in the Output Block. I can't find the thread, but he swears by doing one and/or the other, then raising the volume by using the front knob instead, it eliminated the clip.

Well I just did the same thing, and the clipping I heard was gone! I'm still experimenting with whether I want to do it at the Input or Output Blocks, but either way, this was a bit of a surprise to me. I'm usually playing high-gain tones, so I never noticed it before. Just didn't hear it.

I guess the takeaway from this is I shouldn't rely on factory presets like I had been. But, OTOH, that's a preset from Cooper Carter, which I would think he dialed in using his Majesty.

I then tested this by going back to the actual 'Petrucci Rig 2023', with no tweaks, without the boost engaged on my guitar, and checked the clean scene, and sure enough, it clips. Turn down the In 1 Block Output level, turn up Output 1 knob on the unit, and the clipping is gone. And btw, that Block level was set @ 0dB. I lowered it to -20dB.

Again, I couldn't find that thread, but iirc, the OP was being told that the way he was adjusting his levels to eliminate the clipping he said he saw in his DAW, was not needed! Go figure. I think I'll be doing this on all my presets going forward. Guess I'm still learning...

Just throwing this out there in case it might help anyone.

 

[duzie]

Probably that Chromatatism guy over there .
Yeah I’m sure I spelled that wrong.

 

[LP59]

There is nothing in any block in the grid that will affect input clipping. Output clipping is different though, and you should always check your presets for output clipping. AxeEdit has a preset leveling tool to help with that.

What you heard may not have been clipping though. It may be you just prefer the sound of that preset with lower gain.

 

[texhex]

I remember watching this awhile back. Some good info in this on Input clipping.

 

[Achilles]

I play a Majesty, which I suppose with the 20 dB boost engaged is pretty hot.

Even without the boost it's pretty hot. I couldn't use the same input trim with it as I did with a PAF pickup guitar with a Focusrite interface.

 

[Mongillo19]

Even without the boost it's pretty hot. I couldn't use the same input trim with it as I did with a PAF pickup guitar with a Focusrite interface.

Yeah that's wild to have a constant 20db on with hot pickups. But if it works it works

 

[TSJMajesty]

There is nothing in any block in the grid that will affect input clipping. Output clipping is different though, and you should always check your presets for output clipping. AxeEdit has a preset leveling tool to help with that.

What you heard may not have been clipping though. It may be you just prefer the sound of that preset with lower gain.

No, it wasn't gain. It was in the clean scene, it sounded like a crackling, and it completely went away when I adjusted the volumes like I described, without altering the base tone at all.

 

[MTB1973]

This thread I think.

All amp models have have a high frequency rasp

All the mid to high gain amps I have tried in the FM3 have this strange sound in the higher frequencies. This seems to occur regardless of the IR I am using. I have made sure that there is no global EQ settings that might cause this, and I am just using a simple signal chain (1 amp block, 1 cab...

forum.fractalaudio.com

 

[TSJMajesty]

Yeah that's wild to have a constant 20db on with hot pickups. But if it works it works

I generally don't use that boost. But in rare cases where I may want it on, I needed to set that Input level accordingly. That's why I mentioned it- just to clarify that any clipping was not due to that input level being too high.

I sometimes compare using the on-board boost to using a Drive Block, to turning on the boost in the Amp Block, just to see which I prefer.

 

[TSJMajesty]

This thread I think.

All amp models have have a high frequency rasp

All the mid to high gain amps I have tried in the FM3 have this strange sound in the higher frequencies. This seems to occur regardless of the IR I am using. I have made sure that there is no global EQ settings that might cause this, and I am just using a simple signal chain (1 amp block, 1 cab...

forum.fractalaudio.com

Yes that's the one. There's some great reading in that thread.

 

[LP59]

Someone had posted a thread at Fractal claiming he could still see his waveform clipping, so he turned the Input Block down to something like -20, and/or the same thing in the Output Block. I can't find the thread, but he swears by doing one and/or the other, then raising the volume by using the front knob instead, it eliminated the clip.

It's a confusing thread and he had two unrelated issues. The clipping was fixed not by changing the input block level, but by changing the input pad. He did change the input block level but that had nothing to do with clipping. He did that because he preferred the lower gain tone. He said he liked how it wasn't as compressed as when that was turned up.

That doesn't explain where your crackling sound was coming from. It might have been output clipping?

 

[TSJMajesty]

It's a confusing thread and he had two unrelated issues. The clipping was fixed not by changing the input block level, but by changing the input pad. He did change the input block level but that had nothing to do with clipping. He did that because he preferred the lower gain tone. He said he liked how it wasn't as compressed as when that was turned up.

That doesn't explain where your crackling sound was coming from. It might have been output clipping?

It's possible I got some of the details wrong, as I seem to remember more than 1 person chiming in about making various changes to volumes.

But either way, my Input/Instrument Level is set properly, according to FAS.
In the un-altered Petrucci Rig 2023 preset (which btw, came from the first Gift of Tone), the clean scene definitely clips.
But, when I turn the Input Block down from 0 to -20dB, and compensate by turning the volume up on the front panel, the clipping is eliminated.
It does not go away when I do the same thing at the Output Block.

 

[Will Chen]

It's possible I got some of the details wrong, as I seem to remember more than 1 person chiming in about making various changes to volumes.

But either way, my Input/Instrument Level is set properly, according to FAS.
In the un-altered Petrucci Rig 2023 preset (which btw, came from the first Gift of Tone), the clean scene definitely clips.
But, when I turn the Input Block down from 0 to -20dB, and compensate by turning the volume up on the front panel, the clipping is eliminated.
It does not go away when I do the same thing at the Output Block.

In general, modern humbuckers are hot. With the exception of an exceptionally clean amp (model) they are going to clip a bit with really any level of gain at the amp (model). Petrucci doesn't get those sparkly chorused clean tones with a bridge humbucker, he's using a split coil setting. If you don't have a guitar that does coil splitting and want a very clean scene on a Fractal, don't change the input block which is going to also alter the higher gain sounds, lower the input trim on the clean scene and additionally use a compressor to keep the dynamics closer to what the high gains scenes.

 

[TSJMajesty]

In general, modern humbuckers are hot. With the exception of an exceptionally clean amp (model) they are going to clip a bit with really any level of gain at the amp (model). Petrucci doesn't get those sparkly chorused clean tones with a bridge humbucker, he's using a split coil setting. If you don't have a guitar that does coil splitting and want a very clean scene on a Fractal, don't change the input block which is going to also alter the higher gain sounds, lower the input trim on the clean scene and additionally use a compressor to keep the dynamics closer to what the high gains scenes.

That's good to know Will.

I didn't think about JP using his PU's in single-coil mode when recording clean tracks, so I'll check that out.
But I did notice in a different preset, that when I lowered the Output Level in the Input Block , it drastically altered the amount of gain in the high-gain scenes. So if I'll be sure to make any changes to that level be only 'scene-specific', for only clean tones.

Edit: It still clips even using the PU's as single coils.

My conclusion: The preset is dialed in too hot for the clean scene not to clip. And other than the color, I'm even pretty sure Cooper and my Majesty are the same guitar. As in, same build era, so same exact electronics.

 

[Will Chen]

That's good to know Will.

I didn't think about JP using his PU's in single-coil mode when recording clean tracks, so I'll check that out.
But I did notice in a different preset, that when I lowered the Output Level in the Input Block , it drastically altered the amount of gain in the high-gain scenes. So if I'll be sure to make any changes to that level be only 'scene-specific', for only clean tones.

Edit: It still clips even using the PU's as single coils.

My conclusion: The preset is dialed in too hot for the clean scene not to clip. And other than the color, I'm even pretty sure Cooper and my Majesty are the same guitar. As in, same build era, so same exact electronics.

I just imported the updated JP presets from the gift of tone page and...you're talking about scene 3? And it's clipping significantly, like sounds really distorted? I can maybe hear a very barely bit of hair on the attack using my humbucker but split clean as a whistle. Granted I'm using a Strandberg and an FM3. Are you sure the III's output isn't distorting a down stream input of your interface or monitor?

 

[TSJMajesty]

I just imported the updated JP presets from the gift of tone page and...you're talking about scene 3? And it's clipping significantly, like sounds really distorted? I can maybe hear a very barely bit of hair on the attack using my humbucker but split clean as a whistle. Granted I'm using a Strandberg and an FM3. Are you sure the III's output isn't distorting a down stream input of your interface or monitor?

Yes, scene 3 in that preset.
No, I wouldn't say it sounds "really distorted." But it's like a crackle you can hear, that completely cleans up when I cut back that IN 1 Block level.

I'm using headphones only, and nothing else, so Idk exactly where it's distorting. But that one adjustment gets rid of it.
I guess I could try bypassing other blocks in that preset to try and isolate it, (if it's a problem with another block), but I'd have to do it another time.

 

[Will Chen]

NM, I hear it when I bypass all the chorus delay and strum a litter harder on the bridge pickup. I isolated it to the comp block and extending either the attack and/or release time fixes it.

 

[Bruce]

If I reduced gain or level depending on what I saw in UA console, my SN ratio would be abysmal. Their meters clip notoriously early and it is quite annoying. As for the FAS stuff, I really wish I could turn off the little clipping notification and just go back to watching the occasional red meter flash here and there. If there is a way to turn this off, someone please let me know.

 

[Stone]

NM, I hear it when I bypass all the chorus delay and strum a litter harder on the bridge pickup. I isolated it to the comp block and extending either the attack and/or release time fixes it.

Why would that be ?

 

[Will Chen]

Why would that be ?

A compressor with attack and release at 0 should distort (you can do the research if your curious as to exactly why), this preset had a very short attack and release so I presume Fractal's comp is acting as intended.