The Fractal FM3 Sucks (Kind of)

[mbenigni]

Yep: FWIW, I think most are acknowledging that the UI is more difficult/painful than other devices but they're basically saying: it is worth the effort for many, so OP should stick with it and give it a chance.

A lot different than denying there is significant room for improvement or calling people who decide that it is a big enough issue that they choose a different device names... I don't think either of those things are going on here.

Also, one thing to acknowledge about the Fractal UI that is superb: the block/grid paradigm. It is supremely flexible. I would not want to give that up, I don't feel any other device gives the feeling of nearly unlimited freedom the Fractals do in that regard. And I think that is what that complexity buys you. It feels like you can do crazy stuff that would be a PITA in the real world and nearly impossible on any other device.

First time I used a Helix, I was like WTF is this 'lane' stuff? It felt unnecessarily restrictive after using a Fractal for so long and it seemed counterintuitive to me. It still does really.

QC could basically crib the Helix UI directly... but if Fractal did the same, I expect you'd be giving a lot up for that. If that were the case, I'll take the complexity and tether to Axe-Edit and use the panel sparingly.

I agree the block/grid paradigm is powerful and a ahead of the competition in terms of flexibility. But I don't see how it precludes a more modern UI. The only view that would need to change vs. QC/ HX is the main preset layout view, where you'd have the Fractal's dotted line grid rather than QC/ HX's 4 lanes. A touchscreen would be the easiest way to place, move, and connect components on that grid. Making connections would be the most complex part, since signal flow is less predictable than it is on QC or HX.

 

[Elric]

I agree the block/grid paradigm is powerful and a ahead of the competition in terms of flexibility. But I don't see how it precludes a more modern UI. The only view that would need to change vs. QC/ HX is the main preset layout view, where you'd have the Fractal's dotted line grid rather than QC/ HX's 4 lanes. A touchscreen would be the easiest way to place, move, and connect components on that grid. Making connections would be the most complex part, since signal flow is less predictable than it is on QC or HX.

I'm thinking in terms of the rack unit mostly. If you just go straight for a touch GUI, I don't even see how you can do a rack unit.

 

[mbenigni]

Imagine the uproar and backlash if the entire UI was redone. It'd be the same sort of thing,
only on the other side. "Now I have to learn an whole new UI!"

The truth is we can't win over everyone in this world. Never happens. Never will happen.
We can be a Messiah or a Saint and you'll get a contract put out on your life. You can spend
countless hours trying to please people, and make yourself miserable, because people tend to
be miserable, and they want someone to offer them a product or service that makes them feel
not miserable for a moment or two.... only to return to the baseline state of chronic misery.

Things will be as they are, and the more we embrace and accept that the sooner we can not
be as miserable as most people are.

Then they can rail against us for that!

All good philosophy, but it doesn't make critiques of the FAS UI any less legitimate. It's a question of scope. "Life is suffering", however true, is a good ways out of scope from, "I sometimes confuse the Edit and Enter button." (Similarly: yes, there are people starving/ at war/ displaced/ etc. all over the world, why are we on the internet talking about gear, music, tv shows, video games, and everything else we talk about. Mainly, why not?)

If we want to keep the discussion down to Earth, better to cite Cliff Chase's own brief comments: "There's always room for improvement; resources are limited." At the end of the day, these boxes are what they are and they ain't what they ain't. Use what you dig.

 

[mbenigni]

I'm thinking in terms of the rack unit mostly. If you just go straight for a touch GUI, I don't even see how you can do a rack unit.

That's true. If you forego a touchscreen interface, then you wind up somewhere closer to Helix, and the main objective is to make cursor-based block placement/ movement/ etc. more intuitive. But as soon as I start "splitting the difference" like this, my persistent lack of familiarity with FAS catches up with me. :)

 

[Orvillain]

Imagine the uproar and backlash if the entire UI was redone. It'd be the same sort of thing,

No one is asking for that.

 

[madrigal77]

I've got an old Microsoft Surface Pro 4 that I hook mine up to and edit everything on that. I can totally understand how annoying it is to edit on the device though. I tried it once and went "fuck that" and dragged the Surface out haha.

 

[deadpool_25]

I wonder how many of us on here would be rocking a QC if NDSP just wasn't a clown show

I had one pre ordered but canceled it before it came out. My main reason for wanting it was the ability to run multiple amps which I couldn't do with the FM3. Not too long after canceling the QC the FM9 came out. I ordered that and haven't looked back.

Both units can sound great in general. The QC has a sweet form factor. It can capture which I don't really care about personally.

I do things with the FM9 that the QC simply isn't capable of though (routing mostly, but sometimes deep tweaking as well). For me the only "downside" to the Fractal is tweaking on the unit and even that isn't that bad for me. I don't do it often since the editor is awesome imo, but can if I need to.

So, no. Even if NDSP wasn't so damned annoying I'd still be on the Fractal train. I'm definitely curious to see what the next gen is like.

 

[laxu]

Also, one thing to acknowledge about the Fractal UI that is superb: the block/grid paradigm. It is supremely flexible. I would not want to give that up, I don't feel any other device gives the feeling of nearly unlimited freedom the Fractals do in that regard. And I think that is what that complexity buys you. It feels like you can do crazy stuff that would be a PITA in the real world and nearly impossible on any other device.

It is both flexible and a bit weird. Once you start bringing in the Mixer blocks it gets odd. The grid should be basically just a visual alignment thing and everything is connected as nodes with in/outs.

But the Mixer blocks operate based on "signal coming into the block from this row" behavior which can be hard to understand compared to "signal coming in from the last block connected before Mixer" because visually the row is almost never connected intuitively. Mixers should probably be more like a huge rectangular block spanning all rows to be more understandable.

I hope for next gen Fractal keeps the grid as a visual organization aid but removes the need to play with shunt blocks, instead semi-automatically connecting blocks.

But compared to the current competition it's definitely better as it allows for a lot more parallelism. Of course the Helix/QC style CPU management with paths has plus sides too by allowing more efficient use of the processors, with the caveat being the lack of block channels and complex presets becoming complicated to manage compared to Fractal because you have to consider their placement.

 

[laxu]

I wonder how many of us on here would be rocking a QC if NDSP just wasn't a clown show

I probably would be. When I had it I liked it but saw enough issues to hold off. Said I would buy it again if it got to where I wanted. It's kinda close but I am now waiting for the response from other manufacturers since QC doesn't have a whole lot of advantages anymore.

I am disappointed that it's not better considering it's from my country. We have plenty of talented devs here and while the QC is not a bad product, the company seems to be run more like a startup company meant to be sold to someone else. They have been popping up in local business magazines for example. While that is something their CEOs should do, it also makes it feel like they are hoping for a payday rather than building a passion project like Fractal does.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I probably would be. When I had it I liked it but saw enough issues to hold off. Said I would buy it again if it got to where I wanted. It's kinda close but I am now waiting for the response from other manufacturers since QC doesn't have a whole lot of advantages anymore.

I am disappointed that it's not better considering it's from my country. We have plenty of talented devs here and while the QC is not a bad product, the company seems to be run more like a startup company meant to be sold to someone else. They have been popping up in local business magazines for example. While that is something their CEOs should do, it also makes it feel like they are hoping for a payday rather than building a passion project like Fractal does.

 

[TSJMajesty]

Cliff seems to like the current interface and he gets the final say in all of this, so it may never change.

It (the current UI) has to be on his mind. But...

I'd imagine he may also be thinking... I've been at this a long time. (I think he's ~70...?) No matter what happens, it's impossible to please everyone. I'm done. The Fractal line has done exceedingly well, as have I..., I'm not dealing with a massive undertaking of an updated UI this late in the game. It can be someone else's project.

Maybe...? Just thinking out loud here...


OTOH, he's obviously very passionate when it comes to making his products better, even if it sometimes seems mostly tone-focused. But if it were up to me, in his shoes, I don't know that I'd even bring out a gen IV version.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Axe III=Definition of GOAT tier.

 

[unix-guy]

Wish - Workflow improvement - select a block and move it with arrow keys

Go to either layout view. Go to a block to highlight it. Push big rotary encoder. (nothing currently assigned to this command from what I can see) Block is selected. Use left/right/up/down keys to move the block around the layout. Press encoder again to drop it.

forum.fractalaudio.com

G'wan! Vote up 'bunions' !

And if @unix_guy jumps in and says to use Axe Edit, I'm gonna flip the table!!!

Well, the editor is easier...

But I like idea of the wish. Makes sense. I think front panel capabilities would be great to enhance.

Although not sure if it relies on this?

The FM3/FM9/Axe-FX III all have pressable main encoders and directional arrow buttons.

The FM3 encoder does not have a press option

 

[mbenigni]

@Orvillain ; here's a question for you. And this relates to guitar speakers vs. powered monitors/please god make it stop. That is one thing I like the BEST about studio monitors and "flat" speakers. The ability to hear all the delay/verb/fx clarity instead of it all getting filtered through the guitar cab. I much prefer the pristine sounds for that stuff. So that's one reason why an amp and a load box and some killer FX through a pair of the FR12s/CLRs/wtfever you can live with in this space sounds Rube Goldberg as fuck but ultimately very sonically satisfying

Which part of this was a question?

 

[mbenigni]

...all the UI whiners...

So relieved no one is calling anyone an "idiot" in this thread...

 

[JiveTurkey]

So relieved no one is calling anyone an "idiot" in this thread...

Don't be dumb! That would never happen!

 

[Orvillain]

The FM3 encoder does not have a press option

So what? There are lots of hardware and software differences between all 3 products. The FM3 doesn't give you the same amount of blocks, it doesn't give you the same I/O, some of them don't even give you a headphone jack!

It isn't a reason to poo-poo the idea.

 

[Orvillain]

So relieved no one is calling anyone an "idiot" in this thread...

Aye, thank fuck for that!

@DrewJD82 remains at peace!

 

[mbenigni]

Which part of this was a question?

Sorry, @JiveTurkey - I didn't realize there were three more pages of discussion following this post.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Fwiw, I'm more than happily called "UI whiner", "idiot" or "local contrarian" (just pick your poison - or even all of them). After all, there's more than just good enough reasons to complain about UIs, and in case people don't agree, it's likely telling more about them.