Let’s talk mixers

[Whizzinby]

Not sure if this is the right spot, but since my interest is almost entirely for modelers I’ll drop it here.

Thinking about getting one so I don’t have to constantly reconnect my outputs every time I want to change devices. First world problem, but its a pain in the ass nonetheless. I would like to use it as a hub to connect my monitors to, and then run connections to it from the FM3, QC and IRX. USB audio would be great so I can just run that to my computer and not have any additional setup when recording.

Anyways, what are the pros, cons, brands/models, features to eye, how are you running it in your rig etc.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

MAYBE a patchbay is what you need. Its great for any outboard gear and just keeps cables out the way and stops you having to go behind them.

Not sure they’re still being made but for a while people seemed to dig the Allen & Heath stuff (reasonably good sounding for an affordable console, a lot of features). SSL are making some “budget” (for them) consoles that might be ok for your needs. The brand is a bit shit, but Mackie Onyx stuff always sounded good to me. I wouldn’t trust the converter side of them, nor would I expect them to last long without issues.

My issue with a console is there’s more things that can go wrong/add noise/need servicing etc. Especially with cheaper units where any repair cost is probably going to be more expensive than buying a new one. The ones with interfaces aren’t usually that well supported or as good as dedicated outboard ones.

Honestly, a patchbay would be my recommendation. You could patch whatever gear you like to your interface and direct to your monitors. can also combine gear easily (if you wanted to put the IR-X in the loop of your fractal and then that into the front of the QC it’s dead simple. And you could rearrange the routing to anything else within seconds).

 

[Whizzinby]

MAYBE a patchbay is what you need. Its great for any outboard gear and just keeps cables out the way and stops you having to go behind them.

Not sure they’re still being made but for a while people seemed to dig the Allen & Heath stuff (reasonably good sounding for an affordable console, a lot of features). SSL are making some “budget” (for them) consoles that might be ok for your needs. The brand is a bit shit, but Mackie Onyx stuff always sounded good to me. I wouldn’t trust the converter side of them, nor would I expect them to last long without issues.

My issue with a console is there’s more things that can go wrong/add noise/need servicing etc. Especially with cheaper units where any repair cost is probably going to be more expensive than buying a new one. The ones with interfaces aren’t usually that well supported or as good as dedicated outboard ones.

Honestly, a patchbay would be my recommendation. You could patch whatever gear you like to your interface and direct to your monitors. can also combine gear easily (if you wanted to put the IR-X in the loop of your fractal and then that into the front of the QC it’s dead simple. And you could rearrange the routing to anything else within seconds).

Hadn’t thought about a patchbay.

Can you run USB audio from a patchbay to a computer? Ideally I’d also like to have a single connection from said device to the computer and never have to worry about reconnecting anything.

• FM3/QC/iRX outputs to mixer/patchbay/device
• Mixer/Patchbay/Device to Computer via USB
• Monitors to Mixer/Patchbay/Device

Kind of what I’m hoping to accomplish with one thing. Then all I’m doing is plugging my instrument in to whatever I’m using at the time.

 

[SeeD]

I have a small Behringer mixer ( 1 mic pre and 2x stereo in`s I think ), with my QC and my Atomic CLR`s
So a mixer works good. I use my QC as a soundcard (usb) . I use my headphones out of my QC ( with the big knob on QC only does my HP levels ) This way I got 2 options when recording or just playing thru my CLR`s ( mixer volums) and on late nights
I also have Line6 wireless G10 as this keeps cables out of the way.

If I had a FM3 also I would have 2 usb`s into my PC ( and just change the soundcard in my daw settings ( QC and FM3) and I would just have to change my input ( wireless ) to go between the QC and FM3 Or place the FM3 in the loop of the QC or in 4cm

Don`t know how to use a patchbay with regards to Usb and re-amping and stuff. I would keep it simple

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Hadn’t thought about a patchbay.

Can you run USB audio from a patchbay to a computer? Ideally I’d also like to have a single connection from said device to the computer and never have to worry about reconnecting anything.

• FM3/QC/iRX outputs to mixer/patchbay/device
• Mixer/Patchbay/Device to Computer via USB
• Monitors to Mixer/Patchbay/Device

Kind of what I’m hoping to accomplish with one thing. Then all I’m doing is plugging my instrument in to whatever I’m using at the time.

Nah you’d want an audio interface too. Even an inexpensive one like a Focusrite/Audient/UA Volt/SSL is going to be better supported, better drivers, and generally work better than ones built into mixers.

You could in theory use one of the modellers as an interface and then route all the others through that, but then you’d have to adjust presets and things and it would get messy. For the sake of grabbing a $100~ interface I’d just go that route.

You’d basically have your monitors hooked up to the interface and you can handle volume adjustments and headphones from there.

All your TRS/XLR’s from the QC/FM-3/IR-X and interface would be hooked up to the patchbay, so you can access everything from there rather than having to to behind each unit and swapping cables.

You can also have routing pre-laid out (called normalling) where an output will go directly to an interface input without needing to put any cables in.

Maybe check a few sound on sound articles about it and watch some youtube videos, but IMO it’s exactly what you want.

Mixers are great for certain things but I think there’s some trade offs and things you wouldn’t need from it too. Patchbay will be cheaper, less cluttered, faster, more flexible, more adaptable in future. It’s the best way for combining different bits of gear together, even with a mixer I’d advise having a patchbay as well.

 

[Whizzinby]

Nah you’d want an audio interface too. Even an inexpensive one like a Focusrite/Audient/UA Volt/SSL is going to be better supported, better drivers, and generally work better than ones built into mixers.

You could in theory use one of the modellers as an interface and then route all the others through that, but then you’d have to adjust presets and things and it would get messy. For the sake of grabbing a $100~ interface I’d just go that route.

You’d basically have your monitors hooked up to the interface and you can handle volume adjustments and headphones from there.

All your TRS/XLR’s from the QC/FM-3/IR-X and interface would be hooked up to the patchbay, so you can access everything from there rather than having to to behind each unit and swapping cables.

You can also have routing pre-laid out (called normalling) where an output will go directly to an interface input without needing to put any cables in.

Maybe check a few sound on sound articles about it and watch some youtube videos, but IMO it’s exactly what you want.

Mixers are great for certain things but I think there’s some trade offs and things you wouldn’t need from it too. Patchbay will be cheaper, less cluttered, faster, more flexible, more adaptable in future. It’s the best way for combining different bits of gear together, even with a mixer I’d advise having a patchbay as well.

So you’re saying run all device outputs to a patchbay, then one connection from patchbay to an audio interface input (where my monitors connect) which connects to my computer?

I don’t think I have the ability to reamp in that scenario without unplugging the USB from the audio interface, and then rerouting output from the audio interface. Which is what I’m trying to avoid. (Rerouting wires)

That said it all confusing and this may work. lol

 

[MirrorProfiles]

So you’re saying run all device outputs to a patchbay, then one connection from patchbay to an audio interface input (where my monitors connect) which connects to my computer?

I don’t think I have the ability to reamp in that scenario without unplugging the USB from the audio interface, and then rerouting output from the audio interface. Which is what I’m trying to avoid. (Rerouting wires)

That said it all confusing and this may work. lol

nah you can definitely reamp in any way you like with this.

Assuming your interface has several channels of ins and outs, you’d have those on the patchbay too. Your audio interface would be hooked up by USB (presumably, can be thunderbolt or ethernet or whatever). You would probably have the main outputs of the interface going to your monitors, and the other outputs from the interface on the patchbay.

So you’d send out of (say) output 3 to the patch bay. That could be half-normalled to the FM-3 input so by default anything you send out your computer through output 3 goes to FM-3 with no cables needed. If you wanted to send the signal to the QC you’d just patch from output 3 to the QC line in.

I have one of my outputs half normalled to a reamp box so I can send stuff to instrument level inputs like amps and pedals. Or I can go from a line out to a line in.

For your monitors, audio would go into the A/D via USB into the computer, back out via usb to the D/A and to the monitors.

All super flexible; that’s the point.

You could also have each of the modellers hooked up by USB and that would still all function as they normally would if you ever wanted to use their own audio interface functions. If you are only reamping into the QC or FM-3, line level is fine. I’m guessing the IR-X only has instrument level ins so you’d either need to use a reamp box or an fx send from one of the modellers.

 

[duzie]

 

[deathbyguitar]

Is this for live for studio? For recording purposes, I just leave my Axe-FX connected via SPID/IF and let my audio interface handle all audio routing in and out of my computer. Using the Fractal as it's own interface just feels like a hassle in a lot of situations.

 

[Whizzinby]

Is this for live for studio? For recording purposes, I just leave my Axe-FX connected via SPID/IF and let my audio interface handle all audio routing in and out of my computer. Using the Fractal as its own interface just feels like a hassle in a lot of situations.

Studio

 

[ᛗᛜᛜᚺDᛜᎶ Ꮤᛨᚳᚴ]

I use a Tascam Model 12 mixer to handle my needs. From what I understand in your scenario and desires, it could work but there are drawbacks, some of which others have already mentioned. One drawback that I do not recall seeing mentioned regarding the mixers is the extra AD/DA conversions that would be happening.

Some of the advantages of using a mixer are:
1. Ability to adjust each input/output before it goes to DAW.
2. Ability to send signals to headphones, speakers, etc. prior to going into computer.
3. Option to create custom mixes for different outputs.
4. Organized cable management as you have mentioned.

Just to give an idea of how the mixer could work, here is one scenario I can imagine:
FM3 stereo out connects to channels 1&2
QC stereo out connects to channels 3&4
IRX stereo out connects to channels 5&6
FM3 USB connects to computer via USB
Model 12 mixer connects to computer via USB
USB of choice is selected in DAW depending on what you are trying to do

In this scenario, I think you could maintain the re-amp capabilities and everything else plus more than what you are looking to achieve. As you know however, there are some drawbacks.

Best of luck and I look forward to hearing what you resolve to!

 

[deathbyguitar]

Studio

Do you have an audio interface already? If I'm understanding your needs correctly, you probably just want an interface with enough inputs instead of a mixer. You'd have your studio monitors hooked into the interface and your different modelers could all be permanently connected to the interface via 1/4 inch, SPID/IF or both. You could then choose different inputs in your DAW depending on what device is being used. This is pretty much how I use my interfaces with different modelers and devices.

Something like this would have enough inputs on the back to make this a breeze.

Scarlett 16i16

Focusrite Scarlett 16i16 is the 4th generation of industry-leading USB audio interfaces; including RedNet converters and two Focusrite mic preamps.

us.focusrite.com

Edit: Forgot to mention, you'd also want to choose the audio interface as your output device so all computer audio (DAW or otherwise) routs through the interface. I'm pretty confident this approach would give you exactly what you're hoping to do. What interface are you using already, if any?

 

[Whizzinby]

Do you have an audio interface already? If I'm understanding your needs correctly, you probably just want an interface with enough inputs instead of a mixer. You'd have your studio monitors hooked into the interface and your different modelers could all be permanently connected to the interface via 1/4 inch, SPID/IF or both. You could then choose different inputs in your DAW depending on what device is being used. This is pretty much how I use my interfaces with different modelers and devices.

Something like this would have enough inputs on the back to make this a breeze.

Scarlett 16i16

Focusrite Scarlett 16i16 is the 4th generation of industry-leading USB audio interfaces; including RedNet converters and two Focusrite mic preamps.

us.focusrite.com

Edit: Forgot to mention, you'd also want to choose the audio interface as your output device so all computer audio (DAW or otherwise) routs through the interface. I'm pretty confident this approach would give you exactly what you're hoping to do. What interface are you using already, if any?

I have a 2i2.

I suppose a non bus powered interface with enough I/O could work. And then I could just connect the device of choice to my computer via USB when wanting to route to and from the daw.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Do you have an audio interface already? If I'm understanding your needs correctly, you probably just want an interface with enough inputs instead of a mixer. You'd have your studio monitors hooked into the interface and your different modelers could all be permanently connected to the interface via 1/4 inch, SPID/IF or both. You could then choose different inputs in your DAW depending on what device is being used. This is pretty much how I use my interfaces with different modelers and devices.

Something like this would have enough inputs on the back to make this a breeze.

Scarlett 16i16

Focusrite Scarlett 16i16 is the 4th generation of industry-leading USB audio interfaces; including RedNet converters and two Focusrite mic preamps.

us.focusrite.com

Edit: Forgot to mention, you'd also want to choose the audio interface as your output device so all computer audio (DAW or otherwise) routs through the interface. I'm pretty confident this approach would give you exactly what you're hoping to do. What interface are you using already, if any?

This would also be a good option. The pro’s and con’s vs a patchbay would be:

- an interface with enough I/O would just be permanently ready to go. You could rename the inputs in the asio driver to what gear is hooked up to it even, so instead on “Input 1-2” it would say “QC 1-2” or whatever.
- if you want to add more gear later on you’d either need to add more channels of conversion, or get a patchbay. A patchbay means you can integrate a lot more gear into fewer channels.
- A patchbay gives you some options for chaining things together. It’s SORT of possible to do within the mixer software of an interface but there’s more latency and A/D conversions involved and still more fiddly. Might not really benefit you anyway, although you could easily do some cool 4CM type stuff or combine the IR-X to different parts of the QC or FM-3. You could easily integrate the IR-X into QC’s cab sim, into FM-3’s FX with minimal fuss.
- interface is probably a bit more expensive (but a good investment). If you can afford to do so, I’d recommend getting an 8 in/8 out interface with additional SPDIF and ADAT, and also a patchbay. Then you have SO much flexibility to do anything and adapt easily in the future.

 

[eggpl@nt]

If I’m understanding your plight correctly, I solved my version of that problem with a Coleman Audio MS6. It can switch between 6 different inputs to a single set of monitors—all stereo XLR in’s and out’s. It’s more limited than a mixer or patchbay, but it fit what I wanted at the time, despite being relatively spendy compared to a reasonable patch bay.

At the push of a button, I can route one of these 6 inputs to my Genelec 8030’s:

• Motu M4, connected to Mac mini
• Axe Fx III
• Helix Rack
• Misc (Tonex pedal, Stomp, etc)
• Computer Monitor (work laptop, Windows PC, Nintendo Switch)
• AUX (iPhone or iPad)

 

[la szum]

Hadn’t thought about a patchbay.

Can you run USB audio from a patchbay to a computer? Ideally I’d also like to have a single connection from said device to the computer and never have to worry about reconnecting anything.

• FM3/QC/iRX outputs to mixer/patchbay/device
• Mixer/Patchbay/Device to Computer via USB
• Monitors to Mixer/Patchbay/Device

Kind of what I’m hoping to accomplish with one thing. Then all I’m doing is plugging my instrument in to whatever I’m using at the time.

USB Mixer.... or an Interface with enough I/O to accommodate you. Done.

I do think you can get more value $$ wise shooting higher on an Interface than you
can on a mixer. Maybe something known to work well with Logic/Apple like an Apollo.

 

[deathbyguitar]

I have a 2i2.

I suppose a non bus powered interface with enough I/O could work. And then I could just connect the device of choice to my computer via USB when wanting to route to and from the daw.

It's even simpler than that. You could leave all your devices hooked up to the interface permanently through different 1/4 inch connections and /or spidif and then just select the designated inputs in your DAW. For example, you could have the FM3 connected through SPID/IF In L+R for a stereo connection (this is what I do with the Axe-FX), dual 1/4 inch connections for QC stereo output, and maybe another pair of 1/4 inch cables for the IRX (which I've never heard of and don't know what it is). But you'd be able to leave all your devices hooked into the interface at the same time. Maybe you'd need a small USB hub if you run out of USB ports for connecting to Axe-Edit/Cortex Control ect but I dunno if this is being done with a laptop or desktop.

A mixer or patch bay would be silly for this kind of thing. Why have 2 devices when you can have one that handles it all? Also, I have a Yamaha mixer that has USB out and it's not a great solution for studio use, IMO. Just get a larger interface and you'll be set.

 

[texhex]

I do everything through my AXE III Mk2.

When you factor in everything it can do it covers a ton of ground and if I were to add up the cost of an Interface, Mixer and a Fractal Device I’d come pretty close to what I have tied up in the III (which I bought used for $1900). Also the III is the first device Cliff develops everything new for; the value of this device has been incredible.

I have a single AXE Preset that lets me switch between:

• Two separate real amps via two independent reactive loads
• Helix native via usb
• Fractal amps (which are tone matched versions of two of my real amps)
• Kemper Profiler (just the amp and cab block on the Profiler or literally the direct Profiler full signal chain)

This same preset lets me use the Fractal drives in front of the real amps, and effects after the amps and after the Kemper amp block. All of it comes out of the Fractal into PA speakers, Monitors, HiFi speakers and a Sub in Stereo.

I control the III and the Kemper via Midi with a Morningstar MC8 on the floor.

This same setup also lets me shoot Profiles via the Kemper of the real amps anytime I want via a different AXE Preset without having to unhook a single thing. And of course I can just build a Preset with only 100% Fractal blocks if I want.

The AXE III is the center piece of the entire rig and you can accomplish all of this because you have total control of all of the inputs and outputs on the III and you can run a Mixer block in the III that lets you control where stuff is routed on the grid and the inputs and outputs. It’s incredibly powerful.

I posted a pic of this here. You can see the AXE on the desk with the Kemper on top and all the cables are behind the desk running to all the equipment.

https://thegearforum.com/threads/if-you’re-considering-a-modeler-you-should-probably-read-this-first.3255/post-115682

I’ve cycled through so much gear off and on and I think I’ve finally landed on something that gives me the most flexibility and options all using one device as the main control hub for all the gear.



You could also look at something like this interface that I was considering before I figured out how to do all this crap via the AXE. Plug everything into this thing and you would just be using Logic to control all the routing.

Behringer U-Phoria UMC1820 USB Audio Interface

USB 2.0 Audio Interface, 18-in/20-out, with 8 Microphone Preamps, ADAT I/O, S/PDIF I/O, MIDI I/O, and Dual Headphone Outputs - 24-bit/96kHz Resolution - Mac/PC

www.sweetwater.com

 

[Enchilada Jones]

I used a Mackie VLZ4 1402 for a long time like that, stereo out to interface and sub stereo out to monitors. I like being able to reach out and grab the faders to adjust levels.
Eventually a Behringer patchbay with optical S/PDIF took its place, (knobs replaced faders, not optimal but works) monitors sent from USB interface. Less money, less space required. And, yea, naming the inputs is a nice improvement

 

[Whizzinby]

It's even simpler than that. You could leave all your devices hooked up to the interface permanently through different 1/4 inch connections and /or spidif and then just select the designated inputs in your DAW. For example, you could have the FM3 connected through SPID/IF In L+R for a stereo connection (this is what I do with the Axe-FX), dual 1/4 inch connections for QC stereo output, and maybe another pair of 1/4 inch cables for the IRX (which I've never heard of and don't know what it is). But you'd be able to leave all your devices hooked into the interface at the same time. Maybe you'd need a small USB hub if you run out of USB ports for connecting to Axe-Edit/Cortex Control ect but I dunno if this is being done with a laptop or desktop.

A mixer or patch bay would be silly for this kind of thing. Why have 2 devices when you can have one that handles it all? Also, I have a Yamaha mixer that has USB out and it's not a great solution for studio use, IMO. Just get a larger interface and you'll be set.

That’s the thing, I don’t want to be reliant on a computer or DAW to do any routing. I’d like to be able to just turn on any random device and go without the computer/DAW involved, unless I’m specifically trying to use an editor or record. (Maybe 50% of the time) That why I was thinking a non bus powered audio interface would probably be the only way to set it up any not be forced to turn on a computer (to power the interface) or do any routing, if all I’m wanting to do at a given time is go FM/QC to monitors.