I think I'm going all digital with my Boss GT-1000Core. (TL;dr)

[JT]

I hope they look at revisiting their real life amps the next go round with the intention of doing it right so they actually sound like the amps they're modeling.

 

[laxu]

I hope they look at revisiting their real life amps the next go round with the intention of doing it right so they actually sound like the amps they're modeling.

I on the other hand hope they ditch them completely and go all in on adding more of their custom models. There's a lot of other products on the market that do a great job with the real amp modeling.

The Roland BMC custom DSP platform is getting a bit long in the tooth, and Roland will need to come out with a newer DSP eventually. Given what they've managed to achieve with the BMC, I can't wait to see what they do with the next generation.

I expect they will release a GX-1000 this year or the next. Whether that uses a higher power or more BMC chips, or something new, I have no idea. Afaik Roland uses the same chip in a number of synths as well so they probably think in terms of "how many things can work with this thing?" when developing a DSP.

 

[JT]

I on the other hand hope they ditch them completely

 

[AFKAEjay]

So, I need at least five general purpose effects blocks to do the things I'm accustomed to doing. The second problem is that, if I want to configure the Core so that the Main Outputs go to FOH (with IRs) and the Sub Outs go to stage amps (with no IRs), the Sub Outs use up the two effects loop sends, so I can't insert any external effects where I need them in the chain. Unfortunately, Boss' feedback generator is not the best. I have and love the Digitech FreqOut, so much so that I actually would like to get a second one.

Doesn’t feel right…2 of the same units on a board

Did you consider adding a loopswitcher so you can save one sub out for the foh feed? (That’s what I did…screw stereo for the audience )
I configured main outs to go to my amps cause it has the volume knob in the chain.

Did you consider handeling your overdrive / clean boost needs with EQ blocks? EQ block can do clean boosts (eqs on zero, just raise the volume in the block). EQ in front of a natural drive can have that one drive do a lot of things.

Why use those switches instead of a midi controller? Midicontroller is more function with a smaller footprint…probably cheaper also.

 

[Will Chen]

The problem with the full size GT-1000 is that it has exactly the same limitations as the Core, and it's too big to transport in an airline personal item. The same really goes for the GX-100. The GX-100 uses exactly the same internal architecture as the GT-1000, just with a different interface, and it too is too big for an airline "personal item". Also, the way I play, I have no use for a treadle, so that's just wasted space, for me.

All of Boss' current generation products use the same Roland BMC custom DSP architecture. The GX-100 has nothing that the GT-1000 and GT-1000Core do not have, except that it is somewhat more flexible in terms of effects block placement, as far as I can tell without actually owning one. Unfortunately, the GX-100 also suffers from a number of omissions compared to the GT-1000 and Core, like you only get one Divider/Mixer block.

For instance, where the GT-1000 and Core only have one Reverb block, the GX-100 seems to allow multiple reverb blocks, so long as it judges it still has enough DSP power leftover to run them. The GT-1000 and the Core will always be able to run everything simultaneously, though it's unlikely you would ever do that, given the limitations on placement.

But the more important issure for me is that the GX-100 is 460 mm wide (18 1/8") and the GT-1000 is 462 mm wide (18 3/16"). I can fit two GT-1000Cores in less than 385 mm (15 3/16") width, and still have enough room to route cables between and under them (because I use 3M Dual Lock 250/250, there's enough room to route cables in the gap underneath the unit).

Boss' Feedbacker algorithm is very weak. It's better than nothing, but the Digitech FreqOut is an order of magnitude better. It's the one pedal from my existing setup that the GT-1000Core just absolutely cannot replace.

The GX-100 lifts the FX block limitations from the GT units allow you to run as many blocks of an effect as the unit can handle. I can't pretend to understand why exactly you want everything in a single patch rather than adding a midi switcher to a single GT Core given how fast patch switching is, but you seem to really want this to work a certain way so more power to you. At that price I'm going with an FM3 (which is what I use anyway).

 

[holoholo]

There’s a TGPer that would love this thread

 

[fuyume]

Did you consider handeling your overdrive / clean boost needs with EQ blocks? EQ block can do clean boosts (eqs on zero, just raise the volume in the block). EQ in front of a natural drive can have that one drive do a lot of things.

Why use those switches instead of a midi controller? Midicontroller is more function with a smaller footprint…probably cheaper also.

I only just figured out I can use the EQ blocks for a clean boost today. I wasn't reading the settings right in the editor, so I didn't think there was a global makeup gain setting in the EQ block, but there is.

I am really not familiar with what is available in terms of MIDI switchers, but I have been looking at the Morningstar line, and I think I can make that work...however, it does turn out to be more expensive and has a current draw burden, too.

I was playing around on PedalPlayground with some ideas for the BCB-90X and BCB-1000 pedalboards, even though they don't meet my airline underseat size restrictions. I decided I might be able to use a USB powerbank to power the MC8 and MC3. Unfortunately, the MC8 only has one MIDI in, so I think I can only run one MC3 into the MC8, and then out of the MC8 to both GT-1000Cores.

Sticking with the 385 x 285 mm size, I wouldn't be able to fit two FreqOuts, no matter what I do.

 

[fuyume]

There’s a TGPer that would love this thread

I no longer patronize that site, or I'd have posted it there.

 

[laxu]

I am really not familiar with what is available in terms of MIDI switchers, but I have been looking at the Morningstar line, and I think I can make that work...however, it does turn out to be more expensive and has a current draw burden, too.

You need to look at our very own Luminitefx. https://luminitefx.com/en-de

I use the Graviton M1 and it can be easily powered with a USB powerbank, I just use a very slim one that I can even just slap underneath the M1.

Looking at your new pics, why have the Boss switch in there at all? The GT-1000 MIDI implementation seems pretty extensive so you should be able to program it to do anything those switches do by using MIDI.

Having more than one MIDI switcher is also overkill. They have multiple layers for switching that can handle all that. All you need to worry about is having enough actual footswitches for your preference.

Here's two layouts using your 18x14" board. One uses the Graviton M2 (M1 + 6 footswitches), the other is the M1 + F10W (10 footswitches). Swapped the Strobostomp for the Mini version because it fits nicer.

Note that you could use any of these completely wireless MIDI by pairing it with CME WIDI products. My own board is a desk board, so it's setup so that under my Temple Audio board there's a CME WIDI Jack -> Strymon Conduit -> Strymon pedals. The M1 powered by a USB powerbank can sit anywhere I want, and the F6W controller I have on the floor for footswitching, all completely wireless.

 

[fuyume]

Looking at your new pics, why have the Boss switch in there at all?

Really just a space filler.

 

[AFKAEjay]

I only just figured out I can use the EQ blocks for a clean boost today. I wasn't reading the settings right in the editor, so I didn't think there was a global makeup gain setting in the EQ block, but there is.

I am really not familiar with what is available in terms of MIDI switchers, but I have been looking at the Morningstar line, and I think I can make that work...however, it does turn out to be more expensive and has a current draw burden, too.

I was playing around on PedalPlayground with some ideas for the BCB-90X and BCB-1000 pedalboards, even though they don't meet my airline underseat size restrictions. I decided I might be able to use a USB powerbank to power the MC8 and MC3. Unfortunately, the MC8 only has one MIDI in, so I think I can only run one MC3 into the MC8, and then out of the MC8 to both GT-1000Cores.

Sticking with the 385 x 285 mm size, I wouldn't be able to fit two FreqOuts, no matter what I do.

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View attachment 20326

How about adding a Boss ms3? That’s a great midicontroler, loopswitcher…and has the efx you need extra. Maybe would sacrifice ability to deliver 2 stereo feeds…unless you can isolate all amp/post amp in the Core. Ms3 + loops —> core…that would keep Cores subs free for use as a stereo feed.

In any of your scenarios…you have 4 spots where you add a bit of latency…something to consider

 

[Sascha Franck]

Yes, also the Core doesn't have Bluetooth. But, the processing capabilities are identical between the GT-1000 and the GT-1000Core. The only differences are the physical form factor (number of actuators and inputs/outputs) and the Bluetooth.

Well, not exactly. The full version has a proper 1MOhm input whereas the Core comes with 2MOhm (quite stupid - but it doesn't matter in case you're always running through active pedals, use a buffer or have non-true-bypass pedals in front).
Anyhow, as far as BT goes, you can go for a CME WIDI jack. This will even allow you to use Boss' BTS apps on mobile devices and connect wirelessly.

 

[fuyume]

Well, not exactly. The full version has a proper 1MOhm input whereas the Core comes with 2MOhm (quite stupid - but it doesn't matter in case you're always running through active pedals, use a buffer or have non-true-bypass pedals in front).
Anyhow, as far as BT goes, you can go for a CME WIDI jack. This will even allow you to use Boss' BTS apps on mobile devices and connect wirelessly.

Higher impedance is better for an input.

And I honestly have no real need for the Bluetooth. It might be nice to have on the road, but I don't have much need to change settings on the fly on the road, and if I did, I can always use either the USB jack or the front panel.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Higher impedance is better for an input.

No. High impedance = yes, but 1MOhm is the typical input impedance all guitar pickups are made in mind with.

 

[fuyume]

How about adding a Boss ms3? That’s a great midicontroler, loopswitcher…and has the efx you need extra. Maybe would sacrifice ability to deliver 2 stereo feeds…unless you can isolate all amp/post amp in the Core. Ms3 + loops —> core…that would keep Cores subs free for use as a stereo feed.

In any of your scenarios…you have 4 spots where you add a bit of latency…something to consider

The MS-3 is $450 USD street price, it's outdated and doesn't have anywhere the same level of effects the Core offers, and the effects I want and need to use don't exist in the MS-3.

As for latency, it's negligible and inaudible. Here's my pedalboard from a few years ago. Count the number of analogue to digital to analogue conversation stages. It was never an issue.

 

[fuyume]

No. High impedance = yes, but 1MOhm is the typical input impedance all guitar pickups are made in mind with.

I've been in pro audio for over 35 years. I feel pretty confident that I know what I'm talking about on this subject. In fact, I'd be even happier if the Core had a 5 Mohm or even 10 Mohm input.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I've been in pro audio for over 35 years. I feel pretty confident that I know what I'm talking about on this subject. In fact, I'd be even happier if the Core had a 5 Mohm or even 10 Mohm input.

So, I gather each and every other pedal and amp maker is just stupid, right?
And besides:

Argument from authority - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[gearJunkie]

The MS-3 is $450 USD street price, it's outdated and doesn't have anywhere the same level of effects the Core offers, and the effects I want and need to use don't exist in the MS-3.

As for latency, it's negligible and inaudible. Here's my pedalboard from a few years ago. Count the number of analogue to digital to analogue conversation stages. It was never an issue.

View attachment 20653

If I were to give a nickname to this board, it would be "Sparky"

Looks like I've found somebody that likes the Spark as much as I do.

 

[Sedaxel]

So, I gather each and every other pedal and amp maker is just stupid, right?
And besides:

Argument from authority - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Well, actually impedance is only a problem if it's too low. That makes excessive load of pickups and you start to lose some frequencies.

Once you reach a level of impedance, the loose of frequencies becomes negligible. That's why he says that he would have preferred even higher impedance. I guess that he's also thinking of plugging piezo pickups from acoustics, which usually need more than 1M to work properly.

Yeah, plugging an electric guitar into a higher than 1M impedance will be almost indistinguishable than plugin it into a 1M input. Even there are some pedals that have 500k, and it's fairly difficult to notice any frequency degradation.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Even there are some pedals that have 500k, and it's fairly difficult to notice any frequency degradation.

It's not so much about frequency degration but about how differently especially the volume pot acts when presented different impedances. This is where there's really clear differences.