The modeler conundrum in 2023

[Riffraff]

So I recently decided to dip my toe in the modeling world. I haven't had a modeler since the 2.0 kidney bean 20 years ago and I hated that thing. Clearly things have vastly improved in the last few years. It's got my GAS going so I got on Fractal's FM3 waiting list 3 months ago.

A few weeks in it became obvious they would have FM9's available long before FM3's so I got on that list too. Only thing is I want to use this as a desk top recording device to get quick access to a variety of tones and don't need all the extra foot switch buttons and the larger size will cause some issues for me. I know It has twice the processing power but I likely won't be using more than a few effects at a time so it doesn't make a lot of sense for me to pay $600+ more for features that won't benefit me and kind of work against me to some degree. That being the case I decide the FM9 is out.

More time goes by and I start hearing how recent Helix updates have closed the tone gap between the Helix and Fractal worlds somewhat. I start listening to YouTube videos and 2nd guess my decision again. I'm starting to wonder if it's really worth it to continue waiting for something that could be on backorder for 6+ months or longer and cost nearly 2x the price of something I could have in days.

FM3 pros

289 amp models
2048 cabs
better out of the box amp tones
supposedly better effects
built like a tank

FM3 cons
Unknown wait
Higher cost
1 amp block
That's all I got because it's damn good.

HX Stomp pros
Available now
New software update dramatically improved cabs
$600 less
Smaller footprint adds flexibility
Supposedly easier OS
Dual amps

HX Stomp cons
Out of the box amp tones need tweaking
Take a hit on resale because they are available
That might be all I got

Let's hear what you guys think now with the 3.6 update. Has the gap closed enough?

 

[JiveTurkey]

Size and utility = Stomp. What amp tones are you looking for? If it's Boogies; super partial to Fractal.

 

[Riffraff]

Lots of different stuff but what impresses me the most about Fractal's models is the edge of breakup tones like the Matchless & Fender tones. It seems like all of them do Marshall & Mesa tone well.

 

[JCW308]

I own two FM3 units now. They are incredibly good. That being said, you can't go wrong with an HX Stomp XL. The new cab and oversampling updates totally made it.

 

[yeky83]

Fractal overall sounds better, has more variety, and is more tweakable. The FM3 will get a significant cab block update soon as well.

HX Stomp is the size and utility king. Amps tones can be hit or miss, but you find the ones you like and those sound great. The biggest yuck for me used to be its reverb but the recent update closed the gap enough, still not Fractal quality but it’s now quite good. I feel like it has a more solid USB audio for recording as well.

 

[norminal]

so I got on Fractal's FM3 waiting list 3 months ago.

Has it really been 3 months since it’s been in-stock? Any ETA on inventory @FractalAudio ?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

IMO you just have to buy both and try for yourself. I’d recommend comparing with like for like IR’s, at least initially, as well as seeing which built in cabs you like.

I think most points above are things I’d agree with, but I’d also factor in the fact Line 6 offer a plugin version which for some people is a massive benefit. You can’t really go wrong with either, and I think you’d be happy either way but the only way to know which one you like more is to try both for yourself

 

[laxu]

If you own a half-decent audio interface, try the Helix Native trial version. While the audio interface will have an effect on how it performs, it can sound the same as Helix hardware. So that's an easy way to test drive how Helix works and sounds. You can even set it to emulate one of the hw units so it limits the available blocks to e.g HX Stomp.

 

[Orvillain]

Buy a Stomp as part of a 30 day trial, and put it through its paces. It's the only way you'll know if it is good enough for you and does what you want.

 

[sleewell]

Line 6 if you want something easier to learn and value being able to easily tweak it on the fly


Fractal if you want ultimate control of every last tiny variable and dont mind learning a slightly more difficult user interface

Fractal bros will say it sounds better but they are very very close at this point to the point where it ultimately comes down to the person using it.

 

[Riffraff]

Excellent points by everyone.

If I knew how long the wait would be I would probably go with the FM3 but not knowing or receiving any kind of feedback at all from Fractal feels like it could be crazy long. I know a lot of dudes waited a year and there is no way I'm doing that given how close these things sound today.

Free Helix Native with a HX Stomp purchase is also a strong incentive.

I'll give it a few more days to see if I can get a hint when FM3's will be available and if the crickets are still singing then I'll pull the trigger on a HX Stomp or HX Stomp XL.

 

[Lysander]

I'll give it a few more days to see if I can get a hint when FM3's will be available and if the crickets are still singing then I'll pull the trigger on a HX Stomp or HX Stomp XL.

If the DSP limitations of the HX Stomp XL are not a concern, you'll love that unit. Best form factor today IMHO, by a land mile.

Helix has gotten so much better at DSP load with the latest firmware releases that i rarely, if ever, run out of blocks when building presets anymore.

 

[sleewell]

If the DSP limitations of the HX Stomp XL are not a concern, you'll love that unit. Best form factor today IMHO, by a land mile.

Helix has gotten so much better at DSP load with the latest firmware releases that i rarely, if ever, run out of blocks when building presets anymore.

I do. That's really my only gripe w the LT. The invective amp is amazing but takes a lot. The poly pitch is amazing but is a huge dsp hog. The delays and reverbs are vastly improved but they add up on dsp too.

I make it work and love the unit but if they did a new one w more dsp I'd be in heaven.

 

[Lysander]

I make it work and love the unit but if they did a new one w more dsp I'd be in heaven.

Oh, been saying the same for a while. The second Line 6 releases a "Helix Mini" (full DSP, small form factor, no exp pedal) i'm ordering three.

 

[laxu]

Oh, been saying the same for a while. The second Line 6 releases a "Helix Mini" (full DSP, small form factor, no exp pedal) i'm ordering three.

I'm hoping we get something like this for next gen. But knowing Line6, it's probably a surfboard with built in expression pedals instead.

 

[FuzzyAce]

@Riffraff
I was pretty much in the same boat as you. Modeling was something I played around with in other's studios around 20 yrs ago, whether that be line6 or plugins, but I never actually owned a digital amp modeler until now. I had looked into Fractal, Line6, ToneX, Amped2 & 3, etc. and finally decided on the Helix Stomp XL. The software is what took me over the edge in favor of it, and honestly if all you want to do is record the software is sufficient. I've yet to play my stomp in a band setting but at the moment I'm enjoying the software for recording. Tons of great sounds that'll keep you happy I can guarantee that.

 

[Bob Zaod]

I can't add too much other than agreeing with what most here already said. Yes the Fractal stuff does have a bit more of a shine to the amps in general and yes it's more tweakable (a minus for me) than HX stuff. I have owned both (FM9 and Helix LT), A/B'd them extensively in multiple environments and kept my Helix LT. Why? To me the workflow (on unit and editor) is still way ahead of Fractal, the overall tone from Fractal is really only slightly better which gets you into subjective territory, and if I ever needed to replace it due to unforeseen circumstances, I could do it in a flash because HX products are readily available at any major music retailer. I do have more reasons but they probably won't mean much to you.

 

[Riffraff]

@Riffraff
I was pretty much in the same boat as you. Modeling was something I played around with in other's studios around 20 yrs ago, whether that be line6 or plugins, but I never actually owned a digital amp modeler until now. I had looked into Fractal, Line6, ToneX, Amped2 & 3, etc. and finally decided on the Helix Stomp XL. The software is what took me over the edge in favor of it, and honestly if all you want to do is record the software is sufficient. I've yet to play my stomp in a band setting but at the moment I'm enjoying the software for recording. Tons of great sounds that'll keep you happy I can guarantee that.

I can't add too much other than agreeing with what most here already said. Yes the Fractal stuff does have a bit more of a shine to the amps in general and yes it's more tweakable (a minus for me) than HX stuff. I have owned both (FM9 and Helix LT), A/B'd them extensively in multiple environments and kept my Helix LT. Why? To me the workflow (on unit and editor) is still way ahead of Fractal, the overall tone from Fractal is really only slightly better which gets you into subjective territory, and if I ever needed to replace it due to unforeseen circumstances, I could do it in a flash because HX products are readily available at any major music retailer. I do have more reasons but they probably won't mean much to you.

Thanks gentlemen.
More & more I'm feeling like The HX Stomp or HX Stomp LT is the best option for me.

New gear will now happen quickly which is always a good thing.

 

[Jarick]

So I recently decided to dip my toe in the modeling world. I haven't had a modeler since the 2.0 kidney bean 20 years ago and I hated that thing. Clearly things have vastly improved in the last few years. It's got my GAS going so I got on Fractal's FM3 waiting list 3 months ago.

A few weeks in it became obvious they would have FM9's available long before FM3's so I got on that list too. Only thing is I want to use this as a desk top recording device to get quick access to a variety of tones and don't need all the extra foot switch buttons and the larger size will cause some issues for me. I know It has twice the processing power but I likely won't be using more than a few effects at a time so it doesn't make a lot of sense for me to pay $600+ more for features that won't benefit me and kind of work against me to some degree. That being the case I decide the FM9 is out.

More time goes by and I start hearing how recent Helix updates have closed the tone gap between the Helix and Fractal worlds somewhat. I start listening to YouTube videos and 2nd guess my decision again. I'm starting to wonder if it's really worth it to continue waiting for something that could be on backorder for 6+ months or longer and cost nearly 2x the price of something I could have in days.

FM3 pros

289 amp models
2048 cabs
better out of the box amp tones
supposedly better effects
built like a tank

FM3 cons
Unknown wait
Higher cost
1 amp block
That's all I got because it's damn good.

HX Stomp pros
Available now
New software update dramatically improved cabs
$600 less
Smaller footprint adds flexibility
Supposedly easier OS
Dual amps

HX Stomp cons
Out of the box amp tones need tweaking
Take a hit on resale because they are available
That might be all I got

Let's hear what you guys think now with the 3.6 update. Has the gap closed enough?

I could write 10,000 words on the topic (and happy to do so if you like), but I'll try to keep it as short as possible:

FM3 is probably going to give the most realistic amp sound with the most complexity and the most variety. Plus the effects are awesome, rich sounding like high end studio units.. The downside is it's the most complex unit and has the least intuitive user interface. It can be overwhelming to deal with all the options and figure out how to get your ideal tone, but it has the capability to do that.

HX Stomp gives up a little bit of that realism, complexity, and variety in favor of a much easier experience for the user. It's very easy to use on the fly and you aren't bogged down with nearly as many options. The effects are also great, closer to vintage stomp pedals than studio effects IMO. The downside here is some of the amps don't sound as good as others IMO and you have fewer options to tweak them if it's not getting where you want. If you record or use a computer, having Helix Native is a massive plus.

In terms of Stomp vs Stomp XL, the only difference is additional switches. If you are just using for desktop purposes, you can go with the standard model. If you're playing with it as a standalone device, the additional switches really are useful.

It's too bad Kemper doesn't have a smaller/cheaper unit because it's probably the easiest for non-modeling users to jump into. Tonex is another possibility, but it doesn't include effects.

I was working on a full audio comparison of all the different modelers (Axe FX 3, Helix, Kemper, NDSP) this week, but there didn't seem to be much interest and I moved on to other things. If it's really helpful, I can try and work on it over the weekend.

 

[Mongillo19]

I was working on a full audio comparison of all the different modelers (Axe FX 3, Helix, Kemper, NDSP) this week, but there didn't seem to be much interest and I moved on to other things. If it's really helpful, I can try and work on it over the weekend.

I think it would be neat but just have to make sure it's down correctly. Nothing worse than spending all that time to find out there was an issue

But yeah to be fair it has been down often but maybe not by a TGF member!