Capturing a modeler? (modelerception)

[GuitarJon]

Have you ever tried to capture a modeler? I wanted to give this a try. So the amp that I wanted to try to capture was my favorite Fractal metal amp, Das Metall on the FM3 MKII Turbo. I captured with both the Quad Cortex and Tonex and the results were quite surprising actually. Have a look:



Have you ever tried this yourself and if so, how were the results?

 

[JiveTurkey]

I profiled the Badonk and HX Recto on the Kemper. They turned out great to my ears? The only IRs I really use consistently in every modeler I have ever used are the Boss cabs. So pretty successful results to my ears, I'd say.

 

[laxu]

When I tried the Tonex app, the Tone.net was already littered with Kemper, Fractal and UA captures. Often not labeled as such either. They worked fine of course, but I don't really see the usecase.

 

[JiveTurkey]

When I tried it, the Tonex Tone.net was already littered with Kemper, Fractal and UA captures. Often not labeled as such either. They worked fine of course, but I don't really see the usecase.

That's irritating

 

[laxu]

For further modelerception, how about capturing a Fractal model with Tonex, then capturing that with QC, then capturing it with Kemper? I'm interested in how much degradation there would be from this sort process. Would it be like copying a CD to cassette, then your friend copies the cassette?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

When I tried the Tonex app, the Tone.net was already littered with Kemper, Fractal and UA captures. Often not labeled as such either. They worked fine of course, but I don't really see the usecase.

yeah, there’s already way too much of this on ToneX. Thankfully NAM has a kind of unwritten policy of not sharing models made from emulations, and Tonocracy just had a tiny number of people contributing models so they are less affected.

 

[Lysander]

I'm willing to bet good money a lot of "professional" profiles/captures out there are just people running modelers. Have no proof, but also no doubts.

PS: Jon, your ability to drop awesome riffs just to be used for shootouts is annoying

 

[mbenigni]

My latest weird thought (which I've mentioned in a couple of other threads) is to try capturing one of the guitar tone matching pedals out there (Mooer Tone Match GTR, SIM1 XT-1, etc.) If the captures are effective, I think they could have incredible utility value as blocks in QC presets. I figure these pedals are primarily applying EQ and dynamics (possibly multiband), which should translate OK to capturing/ profiling. But if there's any time-domain magic (ADSR curves) happening, that would be lost or possibly even interfere.

I'm almost curious enough to pony up the $60 or whatever for the Mooer. Anyone out there already have one on hand to test?

 

[NightWalker]

i dont like captures of other modelers or profiles

 

[eggpl@nt]

i dont like captures of other modelers or profiles

Yeah, but what does the real @Ni6htWalker think???

 

[aivoryuk]

Have you ever tried to capture a modeler? I wanted to give this a try. So the amp that I wanted to try to capture was my favorite Fractal metal amp, Das Metall on the FM3 MKII Turbo. I captured with both the Quad Cortex and Tonex and the results were quite surprising actually. Have a look:



Have you ever tried this yourself and if so, how were the results?

from listening to both the Tone x and QC they both do the adding a little mid range (as they always seem to) and are lacking a little thump compared to the FM3 - you can't tell that much when mixed in but isolated it more obvious. On this occasion of the 2 captures I prefer the QC. But I like that thump of the FM3 so would go with that.

 

[GuitarJon]

I thought that both sounded super close... closer than I was expecting. That was all...

 

[kartikg3]

PS: Jon, your ability to drop awesome riffs just to be used for shootouts is annoying

Haha yes

 

[texhex]

I have never heard of such a thing….

 

[Byrdman]

Although I think the cat is already out of the bag, there should be a line of code in there that prevents this from happening if possible.

I know/assume you are not doing it, @GuitarJon, but I think eventually taking a capture of someone else's capture and/or modeler and selling it as your own is No Bueno and it may be happening already.

I know it would be a lot of work upfront, but you could buy any/all Flagship modelers, and spend a month or two taking Tonex captures of all the amp models you like and then sell the modeler. Unless there is a law or something, what would prevent you from selling Tonex Captures of Axe FX III amp models? I'm sure no one would spend a lot of money on it, but $1 an amp would probably sell and especially if you setup a custom tone shop where you could take orders for tones.

It just seems to me that it is not going to be a very ethical business environment maybe 3-5 years from now. Thoughts???

 

[JiveTurkey]

 

[Lysander]

I know it would be a lot of work upfront, but you could buy any/all Flagship modelers, and spend a month or two taking Tonex captures of all the amp models you like and then sell the modeler. Unless there is a law or something, what would prevent you from selling Tonex Captures of Axe FX III amp models?

Absolutely nothing. And as noted, i'm pretty sure many people do already.

A capture/profile is more akin to a recording than anything else - if anything, they could be protected by copyright laws.

Literally not possible, unless you get rid of analog connections on modelers.

Hell, even digital audio connections don't support DRM of any kind. And, as far as i know, neither do Kemper, Quad Cortex et al as a whole.

 

[Lysander]

They're not really a recording either. Samplers are closer to that. This is a new area, and yet another one where laws haven't kept up.

We had a discussion thread on this subject a while ago, but, they sort of are: by definition, recording is taking an input, interpreting it, and storing it on media. This can ostensibly cover anything from vinyl to tape to profiles to even AI models, such as those used by ToneX, to the point where all those lawsuits currently happening against OpenAI et all are related to copyright infringement on derivative work.

The kicker is you cannot copyright a sound (your amp, or your Axe-FX)... but you sure as hell can copyright a recording of it.

 

[Achilles]

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[northern_fox]

yeah, there’s already way too much of this on ToneX. Thankfully NAM has a kind of unwritten policy of not sharing models made from emulations, and Tonocracy just had a tiny number of people contributing models so they are less affected.

It's actually a written policy in the group - and fortunately people outside have generally followed suit including tonehunt! It's just phrased in the form of not violating EULA for products rather than explicitly saying no sharing of modelers/software captures. Initially it was a struggle, but it seems to have gone over well in the long run