NMD: NDSP Quad Cortex

[mikah912]

While I agree about the effects quality and slow development, "boring" is not always a bad thing. It can also mean "consistent" where the things the unit does are not changing all the time - basically what Boss does. But Boss has always been "the Boss" of having effects that are just plain good but might not blow your socks off, and that's not what I can say about the QC.

I think the issue is less that the QC is a boring device and more that it was explicitly sold from the initial hype announcement to four years later as "an ever-expanding collection of guitar and bass algorithms", which....LOL.

The pretty-much-unchanged-from-2020 FAQ (which says a ton in and of itself) on their site is filled with outdated howlers like:

"Of course, there are other ground-breaking features such as Neural Capture that you simply cannot get in any plugin."

Because "of course" there are no amp/pedal capture plugin options on the market to compete with this hardware. Not a one in the foreseeable future.

"What are your plans to incorporate more amplifier models, IRs and effects?

Very aggressive plans. Our pledge is that the collection of sounds will continue to grow, permanently."

So aggressive in fact, that they seemingly ran out of steam around August 2023, a little more than two years after launch with no additional devices announced or even teased for launch in the 7 months since.

You mention BOSS, and it's a perfect case study in how to (BOSS) and how NOT to (Neural DSP) manage expectations. By any objective standard, the QC is the more actively developed device, but BOSS doesn't get roasted and grilled across the Internet for years because they sell an accurate image of their products. So relative to what they say they will do, BOSS delivers almost every time. Meanwhile, NDSP can't stop stepping on rakes and self-inflicting damage.

All they had to do was stick to the stuff that wasn't easily duplicated - mating captures and modeling in a hardware unit - and leave the stuff alone that wasn't easy to live up to - "aggressively" adding content while also "aggressively" translating plugins while also killing bugs and refining the UI of a first-gen hardware device.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I think the issue is less that the QC is a boring device and more that it was explicitly sold from the initial hype announcement to four years later as "an ever-expanding collection of guitar and bass algorithms", which....LOL.

The pretty-much-unchanged-from-2020 FAQ (which says a ton in and of itself) on their site is filled with outdated howlers like:

"Of course, there are other ground-breaking features such as Neural Capture that you simply cannot get in any plugin."

Because "of course" there are no amp/pedal capture plugin options on the market to compete with this hardware. Not a one in the foreseeable future.

"What are your plans to incorporate more amplifier models, IRs and effects?

Very aggressive plans. Our pledge is that the collection of sounds will continue to grow, permanently."

So aggressive in fact, that they seemingly ran out of steam around August 2023, a little more than two years after launch with no additional devices announced or even teased for launch in the 7 months since.

You mention BOSS, and it's a perfect case study in how to (BOSS) and how NOT to (Neural DSP) manage expectations. By any objective standard, the QC is the more actively developed device, but BOSS doesn't get roasted and grilled across the Internet for years because they sell an accurate image of their products. So relative to what they say they will do, BOSS delivers almost every time. Meanwhile, NDSP can't stop stepping on rakes and self-inflicting damage.

All they had to do was stick to the stuff that wasn't easily duplicated - mating captures and modeling in a hardware unit - and leave the stuff alone that wasn't easy to live up to - "aggressively" adding content while also "aggressively" translating plugins while also killing bugs and refining the UI of a first-gen hardware device.

I continue to aggressively not purchase it

 

[Elric]

For me; I always feel like 4cm should be the best way to go. But it never is? Analog pedals up front, always.

FWIW, I have like three analog drives in front of my 4CM setup but everything else is in the box. Love it.

Agree with @Whizzinby that with the QC you have to make use of the captures or other things will outshine it, especially if you are the 'novelty == inspiration' stripe of player.

 

[timbuck3]

I think the issue is less that the QC is a boring device and more that it was explicitly sold from the initial hype announcement to four years later as "an ever-expanding collection of guitar and bass algorithms", which....LOL.

The pretty-much-unchanged-from-2020 FAQ (which says a ton in and of itself) on their site is filled with outdated howlers like:

"Of course, there are other ground-breaking features such as Neural Capture that you simply cannot get in any plugin."

Because "of course" there are no amp/pedal capture plugin options on the market to compete with this hardware. Not a one in the foreseeable future.

"What are your plans to incorporate more amplifier models, IRs and effects?

Very aggressive plans. Our pledge is that the collection of sounds will continue to grow, permanently."

So aggressive in fact, that they seemingly ran out of steam around August 2023, a little more than two years after launch with no additional devices announced or even teased for launch in the 7 months since.

You mention BOSS, and it's a perfect case study in how to (BOSS) and how NOT to (Neural DSP) manage expectations. By any objective standard, the QC is the more actively developed device, but BOSS doesn't get roasted and grilled across the Internet for years because they sell an accurate image of their products. So relative to what they say they will do, BOSS delivers almost every time. Meanwhile, NDSP can't stop stepping on rakes and self-inflicting damage.

All they had to do was stick to the stuff that wasn't easily duplicated - mating captures and modeling in a hardware unit - and leave the stuff alone that wasn't easy to live up to - "aggressively" adding content while also "aggressively" translating plugins while also killing bugs and refining the UI of a first-gen hardware device.

so what really is qc's problem? Cliff has no issue with fractal updating some killer changes fairly often...line6 as well..in 4 yrs its a sad developement. too bad....by the time they maybe get it together others will be releasing their newest stuff anyhow

 

[Mongillo19]

so what really is qc's problem?

Marketing team pushes out more content and hype than the development team can keep up with


But to be fair, the QC in its current state is quite full of features that will make a majority of users happy

 

[mikah912]

Marketing team pushes out more content and hype than the development team can keep up with


But to be fair, the QC in it's current state is quite full of features that will make a majority of users happy

Yeah, the product is good. Great, even, for a good number of use cases.

But the company has taken a hard right turn into paywalling what they're working on for the foreseeable future, so now it's turning into something of a vending machine for "X" plugins too, unfortunately.

 

[Mongillo19]

Yeah, the product is good. Great, even, for a good number of use cases.

But the company has taken a hard right turn into paywalling what they're working on for the foreseeable future, so now it's turning into something of a vending machine for "X" plugins too, unfortunately.

Idk, it's not like they charged extra for the "X" versions though. You were always going to need to own the plugin to use it on the QC.

But yes, if the only way you can get a great reverb is by buying a plugin, that's dumb af

 

[Whizzinby]

Idk, it's not like they charged extra for the "X" versions though. You were always going to need to own the plugin to use it on the QC.

But yes, if the only way you can get a great reverb is by buying a plugin, that's dumb af

Yeah but if they can’t release shit for the QC because the entire staff is working to port the friggin plugins…

 

[Mongillo19]

Yeah but if they can’t release shit for the QC because the entire staff is working to port the friggin plugins…

Yes, if it's truly going to take years to get all plugins working on the QC and thus halting updates, it will be such a waste.

But I still think the QC in its current state is fine. A device doesn't need to be updated every week (yes I know NDSP usually is only a few times a year). It sure makes it fun tho and that the company truly stands by their product. But I don't think it's fair to compare the fractal to really any device in terms of update speed because the other device will always be embarrassed.

But as mentioned, I hope they don't think that porting plugins, thus adding in new amp models and effects through the plugin is equal to firmware updates adding free new items to the QC. But I'm wary

 

[timbuck3]

Yeah but if they can’t release shit for the QC because the entire staff is working to port the friggin plugins…

they kind of did it backwards. if they made the qc to run their profiles 1st then the people interested in profiles woud likely buy it and stick all the profiles in it....then deal with the modeling/captures and effects and others would line up for it too...

 

[Mongillo19]

they kind of did it backwards. if they made the qc to run their profiles 1st then the people interested in profiles woud likely buy it and stick all the profiles in it....then deal with the modeling/captures and effects and others would line up for it too...

I agree. Plugin support should have been day 1 given they built their reputation off of them (and probably sold many preorders based off them)

 

[Whizzinby]

Yes, if it's truly going to take years to get all plugins working on the QC and thus halting updates, it will be such a waste.

They’ve released 3 amps in the last 13 months on the QC, and haven’t ported a single plug in three years.

 

[mikah912]

They’ve released 3 amps in the last 13 months on the QC, and haven’t ported a single plug in three years.

This is where I'd normally try to be kind and say something like "To be fair, they at least have released two plugins, Gojira:X and Plini:X".

Unwinding the mindless mental and verbal gymnastics as to why that's irrelevant to actually using them, however, is one of the crueler things I could say about them, so.....I'll shaddup.

 

[Mongillo19]

They’ve released 3 amps in the last 13 months on the QC, and haven’t ported a single plug in three years.

I feel like they haven't taken plug porting seriously until about a year ago for whatever reason. Also just seemed to be "it'll happen when it happens" until recently

 

[laxu]

I feel like they haven't taken plug porting seriously until about a year ago for whatever reason. Also just seemed to be "it'll happen when it happens" until recently

I expect it's one of those "Why the hell did you promise that?!" things from the engineers and actually needed a lot of rewriting to make it happen, based on requiring those "X" versions and them using those as the starting point for introducing QC plugin compatibility instead of e.g one of their newest plugins.

 

[Jarick]

For me the appeal is that it has so much power in a fairly compact package that is super easy to use and sounds good. It’s simple enough I don’t deep dive into it but the amp and effect modeling is quite good.

I think if Fractal or Helix had a next gen unit with a similar interface and size I’d probably jump over to that. I’m really liking having a desktop modeler that doesn’t need to be hooked up to a computer since I play so much while at my desk doing other things.

I haven’t gotten much use out of captures yet. Hasn’t really done anything for me. I prefer modeling.

 

[SeeD]

For me the appeal is that it has so much power in a fairly compact package that is super easy to use and sounds good. It’s simple enough I don’t deep dive into it but the amp and effect modeling is quite good.

I think if Fractal or Helix had a next gen unit with a similar interface and size I’d probably jump over to that. I’m really liking having a desktop modeler that doesn’t need to be hooked up to a computer since I play so much while at my desk doing other things.

I haven’t gotten much use out of captures yet. Hasn’t really done anything for me. I prefer modeling.

I hate deep diving, I tried doing that for 10 years. I love that the QC is simple
Yeah it`s a nice size I think for my needs.
Me.. I like to capture things, it`s fun. It`s like a NAMM party all year round

 

[mbenigni]

...by the time they maybe get it together others will be releasing their newest stuff anyhow

This refrain comes up pretty often. But it's not a given that the "newest stuff" from the competition will better QC in terms of the QC's own strengths.

Fractal has pretty clearly stated that UI isn't a priority relative to furthering amp and FX modeling, citing finite resources. (And I totally respect that, even if it tends to position FAS squarely in the "not my bag" column.)

Other manufacturers have released products more recent than QC already (as we love to point out; QC ain't getting any younger), without coming close to meeting or exceeding QC's usability. (IMO, YMMV, and other internet fine print applies.)

Line 6 is the wildcard here. Much of the QC's UI looks similar to HX UI (and was arguably cribbed from HX UI), so Line 6 will surely understand the concepts and objectives very well. Add a touchscreen and maybe (gasp) some WiFi functionality, and the next gen Helix product could take a lead in this area. But there's no predicting timeline, pricing, form factor... or what that product will actually sound like.

Data point: Three years with a Quad Cortex and it's still the only one I've never thought about selling.

 

[mbenigni]

they kind of did it backwards. if they made the qc to run their profiles 1st then the people interested in profiles woud likely buy it and stick all the profiles in it....then deal with the modeling/captures and effects and others would line up for it too...

Assuming by "profiles", you mean "plugins"? I wonder about this as business model, though. Consider:

You've designed a device that appeals primarily to a small niche of players who already use NDSP plugins. A significant percentage of those players are happily running plugins direct in DAW/whatever through an audio interface they already own. Now you're asking them to drop $1600-$1800 (depending on timing) on a hardware solution to a problem they don't have. And asking everyone else to spend $1600-$1800 plus cost of plugins. (Which, some might argue, is where we're headed anyway LOL.)

I wouldn't want to be the accountant working up the presentation to the bank.

 

[mbenigni]

They’ve released 3 amps in the last 13 months on the QC, and haven’t ported a single plug in three years.

Well, "technically", they've ported one plugin to QC. The QC firmware just isn't compatible with QC-compatible plugins yet? Or something?