Fractal Audio Firmware Update Thread

[laxu]

I'd rather have 4 additional pages, one for each cab... where the knobs control the basic parameters, and you get a pretty graphic with a virtual microphone image. There's nothing else like that in the Axe3 though, so makes me wonder if there are limitations.

While that provides better control over each cab, I think it misses the overall view of how they work together.

I feel for example the Multitap delay block has this same issue on the onboard UI because it doesn't use a column layout like the cab sim does so often some of the taps are not on screen so there is no good way to visualize the relationships between time, feedback, panning, level etc.

It's definitely not an easy thing to solve with a small screen. I'd prefer a setup where you can use e.g A-E knobs to control specific parameters of the selected cab slot like A is horizontal mic position and B is distance so you don't have to toggle between rows with the navigation arrows to play with these.

Fractal seems very reluctant to make changes to the onboard UI even if it's stuff that doesn't involve developing whole new UI elements like in this case the visual indicator for the cab. Axe-Edit has seen far more progress.

 

[Stone]

IM curious as to how this will be Implemented in the Edit Program ?
also what happens to all the current IR/cabs already in the unit?
like how will they be organized ?

 

[DLC86]

like how will they be organized ?

The only question for which we already have an answer is this. There's a new "mode" tab in the cab block to choose between legacy (normal IR selection) and dyna-cab.
Regarding what will happen to current factory IRs, I think Axe Fx MKII and Turbo might have enough memory to host both, but my hope is that they will be ditched on other units with less memory (and offered as a download in case you wanna load them as user cabs) and only have the dyna-cabs as factory cabs.
And I also hope we will have some graphical representation of speaker/mics in the editor.

 

[imperator]

Do you enjoy endlessly searching through packs of irs? Well you're in luck, now you can do it to the power of 1000.

Jokes aside, I think this is a better organizational scheme than having individual irs, I don't see it really affecting the overall sound quality though.

 

[Stone]

Do you enjoy endlessly searching through packs of irs? Well you're in luck, now you can do it to the power of 1000.

Jokes aside, I think this is a better organizational scheme than having individual irs, I don't see it really affecting the overall sound quality though.

Actually no i dont like sifting through IR's why I really love the new Cabs in my Helix
as For IR's i still have a few that i love so no Folder diving for me

 

[laxu]

Do you enjoy endlessly searching through packs of irs? Well you're in luck, now you can do it to the power of 1000.

Jokes aside, I think this is a better organizational scheme than having individual irs, I don't see it really affecting the overall sound quality though.

These are most likely going to be totally new IRs shot specifically for this using the Dynamount mic positioning robot. Whether they are some of the same cabs Fractal used for their current factory IRs remains to be seen.

The movable mic thing just makes it easier to get results you like out of a specific cab. Now it's a "which IR gives me the result that I prefer" challenge that goes away when you can start thinking "I'd like this to have a bit more high end" and you can move a virtual mic around until you get that thing you were looking for.

 

[Stone]

The movable mic thing just makes it easier to get results you like out of a specific cab.

Which is what i now do on the Helix done quite quickly and easily

 

[2112]

"A little fizzy, move the mic a little away from the cone" or "a bit boomy, back off the mic" as a starting point for dialing in a tone with factory cabs is far quicker than scrolling IR's.

 

[jellodog]

I never use the cab block (always ss pwr amp + cab or 4cm with amp).

Can someone please explain why this is exciting?

I managed to wrestle the keyboard back from that uppity monkey.

It's exciting for Cab Block users because:

• A UI that allows you to vary mic position & distance is a much easier way to manage, explore & select IRs; especially from the hardware UI
• FAS has bought a robot and reshot all their cabs with precision at many small intervals, to the best of their ability (possibly with help from YA)
• New mics
• Uncomfirmed: They probably measured Speaker Impedance Curves for the cabs whilst shooting them, so the power amp accuracy when coupled with these cabs should be awesome (maybe selected automatically?)

There's also hope that Cliff may have added a special little extra twist of his own, but that's just pure speculation at this point.

 

[laxu]

• Uncomfirmed: They probably measured Speaker Impedance Curves for the cabs whilst shooting them, so the power amp accuracy when coupled with these cabs should be awesome (maybe selected automatically?)

That would be a great feature as it does have a direct effect on how authentic the amp block behaves. This is how I would do it:

1. Add speaker impedance curves of each cab to the Amp block.
2. Add map of "cab model -> speaker impedance curve" somewhere.
3. Add the options "Link with Cab 1" and "Link with Cab 2" into the Amp block speaker page.
   • If a standard IR is used, just use whatever speaker impedance curve is set in the Amp block.
   • If a new Dyna-cab is used, look at map to determine the right speaker impedance curve and show that in the Amp block UI.

Looking at the map would only need to be done if the cab changes, e.g user changes cab block channels or selects a new cab.

 

[DLC86]

It seems MK1 will have this too!

 

[KHAAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!!!!!]

I think Axe Fx MKII and Turbo might have enough memory to host both, but my hope is that they will be ditched on other units with less memory (and offered as a download in case you wanna load them as user cabs) and only have the dyna-cabs as factory cabs.

I'm wondering about this too. Being able to download the .syx files would be cool. But I'm hoping that I'll just never want to revisit them.

 

[Jarick]

Coincidentally, I was just messing around with the factory cabs last night, and really annoyed with the current implementation. Legacy cabs are really easy to use (pick one), but the mixes are all over the map, you get one per cab, and they are often quite dark sounding. New cabs have a ton of variety with a lot of single mic choices you can blend, but the sounds of each mic are a crap shoot.

That's a big reason I tend to go for some aftermarket IR's which are mixed generally how I like them. That's more limiting but if you can find the right mix and stick with it, that makes life easier.

But being able to grab a cabinet and move the mic around, even if it's just center to edge, is a really nice way to shape the highs and mids. And if you can back off the mic to reduce lows, that's nice as well. It just cuts down on having thousands of IR's and is the way everything is going (which is good).

I'm curious how many cabs will be shot. I'd honestly rather have closer to a dozen good cabs to cover a lot of ground than having 50+ cabs. I mean mostly I only use a few cabs anyways.

 

[DrewJD82]

Some more info from Cliff-

For those who are interested:

We chose "quality-over-quantity" for this.

The resulting IRs are 2K samples (as opposed to 1K on other products).

We use a higher spatial sampling frequency (I know what the spatial sampling is on the other products but I won't divulge that out of respect).

I've developed a new alignment technique that perfectly aligns all IRs without destroying phase information (NOT minimum-phase). So you can combine IRs from different cabs/mics without phase problems. This also eliminates the "phasiness" you hear with other approaches.

We captured the IRs at a new studio built by an industry veteran who worked at Power Station and Sony and produced Michael Jackson, Los Lonely Boys, Roberta Flack, et. al.

Sounds really good.

 

[fretworn]

 

[laxu]

Coincidentally, I was just messing around with the factory cabs last night, and really annoyed with the current implementation. Legacy cabs are really easy to use (pick one), but the mixes are all over the map, you get one per cab, and they are often quite dark sounding. New cabs have a ton of variety with a lot of single mic choices you can blend, but the sounds of each mic are a crap shoot.

That's a big reason I tend to go for some aftermarket IR's which are mixed generally how I like them. That's more limiting but if you can find the right mix and stick with it, that makes life easier.

For me the factory cabs have worked well, but I tend to make my own mix using the same cab in two slots with different mics. I like that the factory cabs have a rather wide amount of variety and some unusual options too.

I'm curious how many cabs will be shot. I'd honestly rather have closer to a dozen good cabs to cover a lot of ground than having 50+ cabs. I mean mostly I only use a few cabs anyways.

I think there will need to be quite a few. I'd say something like this:

1. 1x8 Champ
2. 1x10 Princeton
3. 1x12 Deluxe Reverb
4. 1x12 Tweed
5. 1x12 AC15 Alnico Blue
6. 1x15 bass cabs
7. 2x10 Vibrolux
8. 2x12 AC30 Alnico Blue
9. 2x12 Greenback
10. 2x12 G12H
11. 2x12 V30
12. 2x12 JC-120
13. 2x12 Twin
14. 2x12 C90, seems to be already in as the Mesa Lonestar aka Texas Star cab.
15. 4x10 Super Reverb
16. 4x10 Bassman
17. 4x10 bass cabs
18. 4x12 Greenback, probably a few variants with pre-Rola vs modern GBs
19. 4x12 G12H
20. 4x12 T75
21. 4x12 EVM12L
22. 4x12 V30, probably a few variants of this e.g Mesa, Orange, Bogner etc
23. 8x10 Ampeg SVT

So that probably amounts closer to 30 cabs if you count the variants and bass cabs.

While Fractal don't need to do all of it at once and could add new cabs over the year, I would expect to have the most popular 1x12, 2x12 and 4x12 options covered. Probably 15-20 cabs?

 

[Jarick]

For me the factory cabs have worked well, but I tend to make my own mix using the same cab in two slots with different mics. I like that the factory cabs have a rather wide amount of variety and some unusual options too.

I think there will need to be quite a few. I'd say something like this:

1. 1x8 Champ
2. 1x10 Princeton
3. 1x12 Deluxe Reverb
4. 1x12 Tweed
5. 1x12 AC15 Alnico Blue
6. 1x15 bass cabs
7. 2x10 Vibrolux
8. 2x12 AC30 Alnico Blue
9. 2x12 Greenback
10. 2x12 G12H
11. 2x12 V30
12. 2x12 JC-120
13. 2x12 Twin
14. 2x12 C90, seems to be already in as the Mesa Lonestar aka Texas Star cab.
15. 4x10 Super Reverb
16. 4x10 Bassman
17. 4x10 bass cabs
18. 4x12 Greenback, probably a few variants with pre-Rola vs modern GBs
19. 4x12 G12H
20. 4x12 T75
21. 4x12 EVM12L
22. 4x12 V30, probably a few variants of this e.g Mesa, Orange, Bogner etc
23. 8x10 Ampeg SVT

So that probably amounts closer to 30 cabs if you count the variants and bass cabs.

While Fractal don't need to do all of it at once and could add new cabs over the year, I would expect to have the most popular 1x12, 2x12 and 4x12 options covered. Probably 15-20 cabs?

Really good list. A couple others I'd guess about:

1x12 Morgan AC-20, which has always been a popular Fractal exclusive
2x12 Matchless (G30 and M25) would cover a couple of those
4x12 Mesa Boogie Black Shadow (one of Cliff's cabs)
4x12 Dumble with EV's (also Cliff's cab)

 

[laxu]

Really good list. A couple others I'd guess about:

1x12 Morgan AC-20, which has always been a popular Fractal exclusive
2x12 Matchless (G30 and M25) would cover a couple of those
4x12 Mesa Boogie Black Shadow (one of Cliff's cabs)
4x12 Dumble with EV's (also Cliff's cab)

Yeah I tried to only include some more common and popular options. Well, as long as they don't go the QC route and have freakin' 13 different 4x12 V30 cabs...

I do like that Morgan AC-20 model and its cab! It reminds me a lot of the Victory VC35 + 1x12 with Alnico Gold I had.

 

[jellodog]

More niche but essential to the Vibro-King sound and character: 3x10. Can't imagine that would ever be a priority for the first release though!

 

[Jarick]

Yeah I tried to only include some more common and popular options. Well, as long as they don't go the QC route and have freakin' 13 different 4x12 V30 cabs...

I do like that Morgan AC-20 model and its cab! It reminds me a lot of the Victory VC35 + 1x12 with Alnico Gold I had.

I went through the same exercise and had like 90% overlap with yours! The Marshall and V30 cabs are going to be tricky to figure out.

I'm guessing for Marshall, you have one with vintage greenbacks (ideally pre-Rola), one with modern greenbacks (like the TV cab), one with G12H30's (Jimi), and one with T75's for modern stuff.

Then for V30's I think you have Orange, Mesa Recto, probably one "Euro" cab like Bogner/Diezel/Engl, and maybe another Marshall?