Fractal Audio Firmware Update Thread

[la szum]

Both of those sound like detergents.

Can we send one or more of them to Bob?

 

[Stone]

Well im all Fractal'ed out

 

[Stone]

What was the major change between Ares and Cygnus?
was it that much of an audible improvement?

 

[Mongillo19]

What was the major change between Ares and Cygnus?
was it that much of an audible improvement?

I'd say yes. Especially between Ares and Cyngus X2

 

[la szum]

Well im all Fractal'ed out

What was the major change between Ares and Cygnus?
was it that much of an audible improvement?

You must have had a nap.

 

[GTR37]

What was the major change between Ares and Cygnus?
was it that much of an audible improvement?

It’s hard to describe because Cliff has pretty much overhauled every facet of the amp modelling but I would say there is more chunk and body to the sound
There is more articulation and string separation especially in the lower registers
There is much better volume roll off and dynamics
Drive , Delay , Verb seem much more transparent when mixed in with amp

That’s a few things off the top of my
Head I am sure other could add more

 

[jellodog]

What was the major change between Ares and Cygnus?
was it that much of an audible improvement?

If you really want to know the details then a lot of it is here:

Amp modeling progress - Fractal Audio Wiki

wiki.fractalaudio.com

But yes, significant changes and noticeable audible improvements even in the time that I've owned FAS products, which is less than a year!

Are you trawling through used gear ads for older FAS hardware that runs Ares?

 

[Stone]

If you really want to know the details then a lot of it is here:

Amp modeling progress - Fractal Audio Wiki

wiki.fractalaudio.com

But yes, significant changes and noticeable audible improvements even in the time that I've owned FAS products, which is less than a year!

Are you trawling through used gear ads for older FAS hardware that runs Ares?

Hahaha no just reading up on the firmware timelines, when im not reading the manual or watching Leon Todd and Cooper Carter videos lol

 

[paisleywookiee]

What was the major change between Ares and Cygnus?
was it that much of an audible improvement?

I had zero interest in the AxeII/AX8, it just wasn’t good enough. Then I got the FM3, and it was pretty damn good. But I sold it. Then a year later, got one again. At that point, it was awesome. I sold it though, because I’m me.

Now, with Cygna X2? Holy shitballs. It’s amazing.

 

[TSJMajesty]

What was the major change between Ares and Cygnus?
was it that much of an audible improvement?

It's better.

 

[fretworn]

2 axis mic placement on the cab and 3 or 4 different mic types?

 

[TubeStack]

A sneak peek into the future for Fractal Owners.

View attachment 4822

I never use the cab block (always ss pwr amp + cab or 4cm with amp).

Can someone please explain why this is exciting?

 

[jellodog]

I never use the cab block [...]

Can someone please explain why this is exciting?

Nooo.

IS soooper BGI SEEEKRET.

OnLy 4 Cab bloK yoosERs.

 

[BenIfin]

A sneak peek into the future for Fractal Owners.

View attachment 4822

I think this is really good ...... I just made the mistake though of looking at the comments in the A3 Forum about this for any more details .... and the user comments are just so stomach-churningly-sycophantic ...... i.m.h.o. of course

Its my bad .... I shouldn't have looked over there.

I was going to post in the thread about this feature already being in "at least 2 other high end modelers " and the top end software modelers ...but ... actually .... no I was never going to ... but gee's I felt like it

But of course, once implemented, the user comments will be that the Fractal "implementation" is vastly superior to the way anybody else has ever done ..... you can take that to the bank :)

Pointless rant over.

Ben

 

[Orvillain]

I think this is really good ...... I just made the mistake though of looking at the comments in the A3 Forum about this for any more details .... and the user comments are just so stomach-churningly-sycophantic ...... i.m.h.o. of course

Its my bad .... I shouldn't have looked over there.

I was going to post in the thread about this feature already being in "at least 2 other high end modelers " and the top end software modelers ...but ... actually .... no I was never going to ... but gee's I felt like it

But of course, once implemented, the user comments will be that the Fractal "implementation" is vastly superior to the way anybody else has ever done ..... you can take that to the bank :)

Pointless rant over.

Ben

The 1st page is almost entirely jokes, same as you'd get anywhere and about anyone. Jokes about him being Einstein or Doc from Back To The Future. The 2nd page where Cliff posted the screenshot, people start asking questions about it and saying how awesome they think the feature is or could be. There are even a few comments about how you should or shouldn't eat breakfast. Then there's my comments where I already said that the QC and Helix have similar features, with one arsey fanboi comment from someone in response.

There's pretty much nothing in the way of:

so stomach-churningly-sycophantic

As for the feature itself... it's a tricky one to evaluate without having the actual microphones and cabinets. But putting a 421 and 57 on a Mesa OS style cab with V30's.... Helix gives you something that closely resembles the real world.

The Quad Cortex doesn't IMHO. I've never been very impressed with their microphone "modelling" in their cab block, and when I do use their plugins (rarely these days, trying to ween myself off them) I always loaded custom IR's because I don't like the sound of their cab block at all. Without knowing what it is actually doing under the hood I cannot say, but I suspect their interpolation isn't top-notch.

 

[laxu]

As for the feature itself... it's a tricky one to evaluate without having the actual microphones and cabinets. But putting a 421 and 57 on a Mesa OS style cab with V30's.... Helix gives you something that closely resembles the real world.

The Quad Cortex doesn't IMHO. I've never been very impressed with their microphone "modelling" in their cab block, and when I do use their plugins (rarely these days, trying to ween myself off them) I always loaded custom IR's because I don't like the sound of their cab block at all. Without knowing what it is actually doing under the hood I cannot say, but I suspect their interpolation isn't top-notch.

Can't agree with you there. QC contains a lot of the cabs that I've been using in ML Sound Lab MIKKO and between that plugin and the QC they behaved pretty much the same, QC is just a massively more limited version of it due to processing power.

IMO it works a lot like putting a mic in that position. I would expect QC actually interpolates between more IRs than Helix and whether that sounds better, worse or the same is pretty subjective. I think they both work fine. I would expect this would come down to whether you like the IRs underneath that cab sim UI.

 

[Orvillain]

Can't agree with you there. QC contains a lot of the cabs that I've been using in ML Sound Lab MIKKO and between that plugin and the QC they behaved pretty much the same, QC is just a massively more limited version of it due to processing power.

I'm talking about when compared to putting microphones on a real cabinet. For all I know, the MIKKO has the same problem, don't know as I've never used it. Actually come to think of it, wasn't there talk about MIKKO being involved in the QC cab block??? I don't know the story there.

But what I do know is, their SM57 is harsh and buzzy, not in the same way that the real ones sometimes can be, and their 421 is muffled and lacks the high-end shimmer that the real ones do.

Like I said, it's a tricky one to evaluate without having the real gear. Of course component tolerances, yadda yadda... ultimately, I don't like the sound of their cab block. There's something wrong with it, and I've been saying that for years so this isn't a case of Neural sour grapes. I first started to dislike it when I bought the Nolly plugin, and ever since then I can't unhear some kind of unrealistic quality to it. I confess that isn't the most logical deduction, and I cannot quantify it and have never studied it enough. I just know about my individual experience.

Helix's one sounds much better to me, and based on prior experience with Fractal cabs, I expect that one to as well. I'll be disappointed if it doesn't.

 

[laxu]

Speaking of UI, I hope Fractal adds a visual indicator of the mic position to the onboard UI too. This is how I would do it:

It is cramped, but I feel for this sort of cab sim having a visual indicator is important. Otherwise you end up like the original Helix cab sims where position and distance aren't particularly descriptive and easy to visualize for the user.

Since the Axe-Fx 3 display doesn't have a whole lot of pixels, even a fairly low res visualization would do. You can see even in my mockup that the cab 1 mic is overlapping its number indicator and that's to me totally ok because the number is largely irrelevant there. If there is no room, I'd sacrifice the full cab names for having the visualization.

 

[Orvillain]

Speaking of UI, I hope Fractal adds a visual indicator of the mic position to the onboard UI too. This is how I would do it:

View attachment 4837

It is cramped, but I feel for this sort of cab sim having a visual indicator is important. Otherwise you end up like the original Helix cab sims where position and distance aren't particularly descriptive and easy to visualize for the user.

Since the Axe-Fx 3 display doesn't have a whole lot of pixels, even a fairly low res visualization would do. You can see even in my mockup that the cab 1 mic is overlapping its number indicator and that's to me totally ok because the number is largely irrelevant there. If there is no room, I'd sacrifice the full cab names for having the visualization.

I'd rather have 4 additional pages, one for each cab... where the knobs control the basic parameters, and you get a pretty graphic with a virtual microphone image. There's nothing else like that in the Axe3 though, so makes me wonder if there are limitations.

 

[laxu]

I'm talking about when compared to putting microphones on a real cabinet. For all I know, the MIKKO has the same problem, don't know as I've never used it. Actually come to think of it, wasn't there talk about MIKKO being involved in the QC cab block??? I don't know the story there.

But what I do know is, their SM57 is harsh and buzzy, not in the same way that the real ones sometimes can be, and their 421 is muffled and lacks the high-end shimmer that the real ones do.

Like I said, it's a tricky one to evaluate without having the real gear. Of course component tolerances, yadda yadda... ultimately, I don't like the sound of their cab block. There's something wrong with it, and I've been saying that for years so this isn't a case of Neural sour grapes.

Helix's one sounds much better to me, and based on prior experience with Fractal cabs, I expect that one to as well. I'll be disappointed if it doesn't.

Yeah I understood that was what you meant and I'll concede that it's been ages since I've miced a cab with a real SM57.

I just fired up Helix Native with one of the Plexi models and tested the Helix Greenback 25 cab with a SM57 right in the center vs the same setup on MIKKO. They sounded very similar so it's definitely not a problem with the MIKKO plugin or the IRs used with it. If QC makes those same IRs harsh then that's something on the QC end.

My understanding is that ML provided the IRs for some of the cabs but not sure if they were otherwise involved with the cab sim. The rest are from NeuralDSP's plugins like Nolly.