Tone X 1.5 Update

[laxu]

Click on the info button?

Which you would do for every single model in that list because it doesn't present sensible info.

 

[norminal]

Just a heads up…

If you’ve been missing some storage, you might want to check and see if the backups in the Product Manager are part of the culprit. As you can see, these updates could eventually add up:

 

[IK Multimedia]

All it takes is selling your own thoughts and opinions in exchange from a paycheck from IK. As soon as money exchanges hands, opinions don't mean anything.

IK seem to operate inside a void where it takes them to release unfinished products into the wild and garner bemused user feedback before realising there is anything wrong. So much of this stuff should have been apparent before the initial release, and yet they still can't get it right.

This is a company that releases an update focussed on improving the UI, and their improvement for IR's is to make a list you can't sort or organise. It makes you wonder what they interpret when they read user feedback, like is this genuinely what they thought users wanted?

No money was exchanged for that video, though he is a Tone Partner so he had access to more information than some about the upcoming update before it was released but that's it.

The IR window is being revamped. We do read user feedback, if there are improvements you'd like to see please submit them. I believe you even have direct access to our Guitar Product Owner though I don't believe you're a Tone Partner but either way, you can also just send your requests to me or post in the Wish List thread on the IK Forum.

If it is unclear what improvements were made in this update, please refer to the updated manual and the video (I believe already posted in this thread) that show those improvements and the devs are working on more improvements so I hope a future version of TONEX meets your needs.

 

[NightWalker]

Just a heads up…

If you’ve been missing some storage, you might want to check and see if the backups in the Product Manager are part of the culprit. As you can see, these updates could eventually add up:

View attachment 17205

i always delete all those dmg files

 

[IK Multimedia]

i always delete all those dmg files

I've asked to have more than a settings and manual reference to that folder location (since it can be changed and definitely should be cleared out if you don't want those previous version installers). I know we all hate popups but I am going to have to suggest something more up front even if it is a one time "onboarding" message about that since embarking on multiple updates at the same time can be especially taxing on the storage - and then the sounds downloads are even larger.

Sorry, that was a bunch of somewhat OT thinking out loud on my part but I know we also have more QoL updates coming for Product Manager and general policies (removing sound reactivation credits was an initial step but there will be more improvements there) so this should be addressed there.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

No money was exchanged for that video, though he is a Tone Partner so he had access to more information than some about the upcoming update before it was released but that's it.

The IR window is being revamped. We do read user feedback, if there are improvements you'd like to see please submit them. I believe you even have direct access to our Guitar Product Owner though I don't believe you're a Tone Partner but either way, you can also just send your requests to me or post in the Wish List thread on the IK Forum.

If it is unclear what improvements were made in this update, please refer to the updated manual and the video (I believe already posted in this thread) that show those improvements and the devs are working on more improvements so I hope a future version of TONEX meets your needs.

apologies for insinuating he was paid, but I’d still maintain JS isn’t an impartial source when it comes to IK (and some other brands).

I’m not sure what the “Guitar Product Owner” access means, certainly the first I’ve heard of it - would love to know more (and I’m obviously not averse to tone partner/further dialogue if the opportunity is there).

Anyway, good to see you posting here again. Yes some of the comments can be tough or annoying to deal with, but ultimately we are passionate and invested customers that only want a positive outcome and for IK to flourish.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Yes some of the comments can be tough or annoying

That's Our TGFTM

 

[MirrorProfiles]

That's Our TGFTM

 

[Sascha Franck]

Lots to like about this update, but the new IR window is unusable if you have more than 10 IRs.

View attachment 17157

That is their IR "manager"?

 

[BenIfin]

No money was exchanged for that video, though he is a Tone Partner so he had access to more information than some about the upcoming update before it was released but that's it.

The IR window is being revamped. We do read user feedback, if there are improvements you'd like to see please submit them. I believe you even have direct access to our Guitar Product Owner though I don't believe you're a Tone Partner but either way, you can also just send your requests to me or post in the Wish List thread on the IK Forum.

If it is unclear what improvements were made in this update, please refer to the updated manual and the video (I believe already posted in this thread) that show those improvements and the devs are working on more improvements so I hope a future version of TONEX meets your needs.

11 months since release ..... numerous updates ... and still *no* low/high cut feature in the Cab-Block ....... how does that [not] happen ?

Ben

 

[eon]

That is their IR "manager"?

Yes.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Yes.

Ridiculous. Seriously, I don't get it anymore. They just never learn at IKMM. UI fancyness: 12/10 stars, UI usability: -3/10 stars.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

11 months since release ..... numerous updates ... and still *no* low/high cut feature in the Cab-Block ....... how does that [not] happen ?

Ben

The parametric eq doesn’t compensate enough for ya?

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

I actually like the re-vamp of it.

With the exception that the “added on” in the browser is missing.

The IR thing isnt too much a thing for me since I mostly don’t use IRs in Tonex, so i got like 50 in there.
And the last version wasnt much better. Just a bigger window.

Sadly the new models are missing after numerous restore purchase, login/out, and even re-install
Obviously same in ios version.
Yet the Dumble pack shows up

 

[MirrorProfiles]

The parametric eq doesn’t compensate enough for ya?

The ToneX EQ doesn't have filters does it? Guessing he means something more like what Amplitube has (which is also a very basic IR loader that is desperate for improvement)

checking out the ToneX update more.

- Feels to me like the ToneNet and Collections features would be better off in the list on the left.
- locking the cabinet should apply for ToneNet auditioning, thats arguably where its most useful
- its possible to use command click to select non-contiguous items in the list, but annoyingly, you can't deselect items with it
- still can't batch edit models or presets
- This view doesn't really show anything useful unless your file names are short:

- cab section is overly basic. Especially so for IR's (you can't even alter the IR/VIR level, let alone polarity/filters etc) but I wish the VIR implementation was better too. Resonance defaults to 5, not sure if that means flat or if there is a reason for it.
- I think I understand the way presets are handled now instead of tone models. It could do with an initialise preset, as well as the ability to favourite presets without opening up the full view. Weirdly, here deselecting multiple items works fine.

Overall, its better and more like it should have been at release. The IR handling really needs to be taken seriously, both for Amplitube and ToneX. I actually really like the VIR concept and a lot of those sound great to me, but I never use them because they're often a pain to use (lots of clicking, different screens, vague information on how they work). With VIR in ToneX you get pretty simple naming with no way of knowing what speakers are in each cab. Is it useful to call a cab 412 STD or 412 RETS?


Something like Kemper's Rig Manager should have been used as inspiration/starting point. That displays information for each model in a column on the right, you can see far more information on screen at any one point, and lots of the above points all behave as you'd expect.

 

[laxu]

After watching the Jason Sadites video, some advice for the IK design team:

• Do better for edge cases. The most common edge case is that someone types a long text in a box. MirrorProfiles' pics up there highlight a clear problem easily solved by spreading the model name to two lines of text. This should have been caught in testing the grid view.
• Similarly pretty much everywhere it could show more of the amp/cab/stomp name. Multiline, try to fit more space in there etc.
• Figure out how to show more relevant differentiating information in the main browser view. The only useful things are stomp/amp/cab name and those can't even quite fit on a typical screen. The model name is often useless unless it has amp related naming instead of something super generic like "Black Angus".
• Let people collapse the amp graphic smaller to show amp controls + a larger model list. Seeing some tolex and grille cloth is useless.
• Add alternatives to drag and drop. Right click menu options for "Use cab from this model" for example would be good.
• Add tooltips for icon only actions. Some of them require guessing what the function could do.
• Figure out how to make presets more distinctive from tone models. The difference is still kinda confusing as the list item looks identical to the one in the tone model view.
• Understand conventions. Conventions let people learn how things work in app X and translate that knowledge to app Y.
  • For example, the main list sort function is hard to discover by having the sort function as one of the columns. It's not a column, but an action, so why does it look like a column? In most apps you either sort by clicking the column name for asc/desc sort, right click column to select a non-visible column for sorting, or there's a separate sort button which would fit easily in the same row with the View As stuff.

I do think IK's design team could use some professional courses in UI/UX design. Or just read all the free content online. Or go to the library and borrow some Jakob Nielsen books. A lot of UI convention used today was figured out decades ago.

 

[Sascha Franck]

A lot of UI convention used today was figured out decades ago.

Exactly. Look at Windows' Explorer and macOS' Finder. While there's certainly room for improvement for either of them, they are pretty damn solid for most typical file operation, allow for various viewing modes and are generally just there. No need to re-invent file browsing and display. Especially not in case you're not up to the task at all.
And fwiw, Native Instruments should read this as well. The guys responsible for their browsers should've been fired a decade ago already.

 

[laxu]

Exactly. Look at Windows' Explorer and macOS' Finder. While there's certainly room for improvement for either of them, they are pretty damn solid for most typical file operation, allow for various viewing modes and are generally just there. No need to re-invent file browsing and display. Especially not in case you're not up to the task at all.

For better versions of both, Directory Opus for Windows and Cocoatech Path Finder for MacOS. They support things like split pane views, very high levels of customization and more. Of course, a guitar plugin is not going to need this kind of stuff, but just shows that there's a power user level even for file browsing.

All modelers on the market do content management poorly where there's usually not good enough options to search/sort/filter/tag/group things.

 

[Sascha Franck]

For better versions of both, Directory Opus for Windows and Cocoatech Path Finder for MacOS. They support things like split pane views, very high levels of customization and more.

I'm aware of at least some of these tools - but as you're saying yourself, for what you usually need with a modeler, the default file "operators" of whatever OS should be sufficient already.

All modelers on the market do content management poorly where there's usually not good enough options to search/sort/filter/tag/group things.

Don't tell me, in some cases the situation is so p*ss poor it'd make me laugh in case it wasn't that sad.
Just one example: It's 2024 and almost 9 years after release, when your precious HX series patch is missing an IR, the patch is broken forever (unless you manually took notes), simply because HX Edit doesn't even offer the most rudimentary file searching options. In my book, that's as embarassing as it gets.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

After watching the Jason Sadites video, some advice for the IK design team:

• Do better for edge cases. The most common edge case is that someone types a long text in a box. MirrorProfiles' pics up there highlight a clear problem easily solved by spreading the model name to two lines of text. This should have been caught in testing the grid view.
• Similarly pretty much everywhere it could show more of the amp/cab/stomp name. Multiline, try to fit more space in there etc.
• Figure out how to show more relevant differentiating information in the main browser view. The only useful things are stomp/amp/cab name and those can't even quite fit on a typical screen. The model name is often useless unless it has amp related naming instead of something super generic like "Black Angus".
• Let people collapse the amp graphic smaller to show amp controls + a larger model list. Seeing some tolex and grille cloth is useless.
• Add alternatives to drag and drop. Right click menu options for "Use cab from this model" for example would be good.
• Add tooltips for icon only actions. Some of them require guessing what the function could do.
• Figure out how to make presets more distinctive from tone models. The difference is still kinda confusing as the list item looks identical to the one in the tone model view.
• Understand conventions. Conventions let people learn how things work in app X and translate that knowledge to app Y.
  • For example, the main list sort function is hard to discover by having the sort function as one of the columns. It's not a column, but an action, so why does it look like a column? In most apps you either sort by clicking the column name for asc/desc sort, right click column to select a non-visible column for sorting, or there's a separate sort button which would fit easily in the same row with the View As stuff.

I do think IK's design team could use some professional courses in UI/UX design. Or just read all the free content online. Or go to the library and borrow some Jakob Nielsen books. A lot of UI convention used today was figured out decades ago.

It lets people collapse the amp and show a bigger list and only the controls…