Helix Amp Models Producing DC

[timbuck3]

Somewhere way back in the Helix journey, I remember becoming aware of those unrelated tones when playing through the HX Vox & Marshall amps using stock Ripple settings. Once heard, I found that I couldn't unhear those ghost notes and it really bothered me. Eventually I did the research and, after finding out that they do actually feature in those amps in real life, was absolutely ok with them. The funny thing is that I had never noticed ghost notes even once in all my years of playing through my real JCM800.

So I wonder: How many newish HX users have returned/sold their units or simply moved on due to real behaviours like these being modelled as prominently as they are in HX Land?

That’s the reason 10 yrs ago I returned helix: squirrels in the tones but granted that was before all the updates to bring it to now

 

[fret gunk]

That’s the reason 10 yrs ago I returned helix: squirrels in the tones but granted that was before all the updates to bring it to now

Understood. Perhaps that decision was largely about where the amp modelling was at prior to the oversampling update.

Fast forward to today and with v3.5 or later firmware, what if getting the tones right for New Helix User is simply a matter of giving that ripple knob (or some other control) a twist to the left, and New Helix User never gets to that realisation before writing the unit off as a waste of time? A similar scenario applies to other modellers.

The learning curve is near vertical. How can it be made easier?

FWIW, I don't think understanding and dialling in a modeller should be an IQ test.

 

[fr8_trane]

Somewhere way back in the Helix journey, I remember becoming aware of those unrelated tones when playing through the HX Vox & Marshall amps using stock Ripple settings. Once heard, I found that I couldn't unhear those ghost notes and it really bothered me. Eventually I did the research and, after finding out that they do actually feature in those amps in real life, was absolutely ok with them. The funny thing is that I had never noticed ghost notes even once in all my years of playing through my real JCM800.

IMO any tube amp with audible ghost notes is in need of service - usually new or upgraded power amp filter caps. Its not a feature, its a bug and the same is true on the Helix. I was very vocal on the Line 6 forums during the HD500 days about the ghost notes. I was hearing them (I couldn't unhear them!) when no one else seemed to care. I literally had to post audio examples to inform people there was a problem - and even then there was push back. The end result after line 6 admitted the ghost notes were in fact real was the addition of advanced amp parameters in the HD500. This was carried over to the Helix . As a result I have user defaults on all my favorite amp models with ripple and hum set to zero.

 

[Chocol8]

IMO any tube amp with audible ghost notes is in need of service - usually new or upgraded power amp filter caps.

This is simply not a matter of opinion, it is factually incorrect. There are plenty of amps, especially vintage amps and vintage deigns, that will have ghost notes when properly serviced and with working to spec filter caps if cranked.

You could eliminate it by adding significantly more filtering but it will impact the way the amp feels and responds in a way many would consider detrimental. The extra filtering could also be problematic for a tube rectifier.

 

[fr8_trane]

This is simply not a matter of opinion, it is factually incorrect. There are plenty of amps, especially vintage amps and vintage deigns, that will have ghost notes when properly serviced and with working to spec filter caps if cranked.

You could eliminate it by adding significantly more filtering but it will impact the way the amp feels and responds in a way many would consider detrimental. The extra filtering could also be problematic for a tube rectifier.

Sure if you literally dime some vintage amps you may get ghost notes but no normal gig would allow that kind of volume anyway. I also dont like tube rectifiers. Call me crazy but ghost notes sound bad in any situation and if my amp had them I'd either fix it or get a different amp.

The ghost notes on the helix happen without the MV or Ripple parameters being cranked. In fact you can clearly hear them just by scrolling through the default amp models without playing a note. The ones that have them will have an audible low hum as you scroll through. Kill the ripple and the noise goes away.

 

[Chocol8]

Sure if you literally dime some vintage amps you may get ghost notes but no normal gig would allow that kind of volume anyway. I also dont like tube rectifiers.

OK, so you don't have a lot of experience with old style tube amps. That's OK, but you don't really know what you are talking about here, and maybe should soften your opinions a bit.

Whether or not a modeler should accurately capture all of the behaviors of tube amps is a matter of opinion and up for debate, but saying an amp needs service or that no "normal" gig would allow you to play loud enough to get ghost notes are both factually incorrect.

 

[fr8_trane]

OK, so you don't have a lot of experience with old style tube amps. That's OK, but you don't really know what you are talking about here, and maybe should soften your opinions a bit.

Whether or not a modeler should accurately capture all of the behaviors of tube amps is a matter of opinion and up for debate, but saying an amp needs service or that no "normal" gig would allow you to play loud enough to get ghost notes are both factually incorrect.

Mmmm OK. Owned a '68 Drip Edge Bassman and a BF'd 78 deluxe (with a Copper Cap SS rectifier) and gigged them extensively. Never got either one above 3 at a show but cranked them (up to maybe 7) at home. Also had an Avatar 45 (Super Bass/JTM 45 hybrid with PPI MV and internally jumped channels) for a few years to scratch the Marshall itch.

 

[I S]

The issue is being addressed.

Whatever we make for Stadium that works within the architecture and DSP considerations of Helix/HX could certainly be added in future firmware updates. So at the very least, new cabs, new effects, new quality of life improvements, certainly bug fixes (like DC offset in certain amps!).

 

[GTR37]

The issue is being addressed.

Thanks @MirrorProfiles for this