Why is spring reverb so hard to model?

[laxu]

I can't wait the day when someone (probably Fractal) models the difference in noise when you have a spring reverb tank mounted the "wrong" way in relation to the transformers or a spring reverb tank meant to go on bottom of a combo getting used at the top of a head. They are such fickle beasts with their flimsy wires, orientation matters and everything.

 

[jay mitchell]

So what do you think is responsible for the alteration in a Spring Reverb's response the louder you
turn an amplifier (specifically a combo) up,

More importantly, why do you think the change in response you hear when you turn up a combo tube amp is caused by the reverb?

 

[SwirlyMaple]

Maybe the engineers should have been complete assholes and alerted the media prior to launch. Sure, it would have cost them their jobs. Some things are more important than a job. Point is, using precise language - and correcting those who misuse same - is part and parcel of any technical discussion. If you don't think this is a technical discussion, then we are really in different universes.

It's a friendly web forum. You have marched so far up this hill that you are now comparing the Challenger launch disaster to a person saying spring reverb resonance might be affected by volume. C'mon Jay, really? I mean... really?

 

[yeky83]

As I alluded to earlier, one of them is due to the initial delay/repeat signature of a spring that is excited at one end and converted back to an electrical signal at the other. This is an extremely important attribute; if you don't recognize and duplicate this behavior, your sim won't quite cut it. More importantly, you can't reproduce this behavior with a recirculator (look it up), which is by far the most common topology used to simulate reverb.

Are you referring to the dispersive propagation of waves on springs and how the low frequency outruns the high frequency as described here? Or something else perhaps?

UA WebZine "Ask the Doctors!" April 06 | What Makes Spring Reverbs Sound "Springy"?

 

[jay mitchell]

Are you referring to the dispersive propagation of waves on springs and how the low frequency outruns the high frequency as described here?

No. While that may be a factor, what I'm talking about is a lot simpler than that.

 

[jellodog]

No. While that may be a factor, what I'm talking about is a lot simpler than that.

Is it because in a Fender NMV amp, when you turn up the volume you're running the mixed-in reverb sound through a power section that is becoming increasingly distorted? It's the extra gain that changes the characteristics of the reverb signal?

 

[la szum]

It's a friendly web forum. You have marched so far up this hill that you are now comparing the Challenger launch disaster to a person saying spring reverb resonance might be affected by volume. C'mon Jay, really? I mean... really?

Though I can't really state with absolute certainty how many people have unwittingly perished due
to erroneous conflations related to Spring Reverb Tank discussions. It could be millions for all I know.

 

[laxu]

FYI, Fractal's spring reverbs allow you to add distortion to the spring sound in the reverb block, simulating pushing a lot of signal into the spring reverb circuit. IMO it sounds absolutely terrible but I guess some combination allows for "authentic" spring tones out of it.

 

[PLX]

I'm guessing these little springs, dunno never taken one apart.
View attachment 11756

 

[jay mitchell]

It's a friendly web forum.

Please read the subject line of the OP. That is a technical question.

 

[mikah912]

It depends what you're looking for. This example with the "boing!" parameter turned up is fairly surfy and drippy:

Surfy reverb

In about a 2 month span I've done a great deal of homework in creating and tweaking presets for a covers band and doing several gigs. As related in a longer post elsewhere, the consistency/quality of live sound, monitoring options and ease of setup/teardown have been a revelation. I still feel...

forum.fractalaudio.com

Yep! This is pretty much the only thing I use Spring Reverb for - surf/spy sections of songs. Well, that and when I instantly want to make a funk or blues riff sound even more "vintage" (In which case, I'm taking the drip waaaaaaay down).

I just don't see a strong use case for any other type of music over a good plate or hall reverb.

Not saying there isn't.....just that I don't personally know of one.

 

[fretworn]

Please read the subject line of the OP. That is a technical question.

Jay must be in the “deep thought and courage phase” of his cocktailing hookah sesh’ tonight …

Jay: “technical discussion ≈ I’m allowed to be rude because it’s just comedy… errrr… I mean engineering.”

 

[KHAAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!!!!!]

I've always thought of spring reverb as the "comedy reverb".

Didn't realize it was serious business.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

a lot of the biggest mixing engineers on the planet have an array of oddball spring reverbs to add character.

Cenzo Townshend is an absolute master and uses them a bunch: http://polymathperspective.com/?p=3321

Tom Elmhirst is a big fan too, all over Amy Winehouse and Adele etc. They can do so much more than cliche surf sounds, they impart character in a very distinct way.

 

[jay mitchell]

They can do so much more than cliche surf sounds, they impart character in a very distinct way.

Here's one example of uses for springs: MicMix Master Room Reverb MR-II.

This company went TU ca. 1985. I visited them back then on behalf of a potential buyer. They were doing some really interesting things, but they were so far underwater that no sensible person would have put money into them.

 

[DrewJD82]

What’s really missing in modelers is the sound of a reverb tank clanking around when an amp’s been dropped. I think that’ll bridge the gap between amps and modelers.

 

[Mongillo19]

I wasn't really interested in spring reverb before but now I'm definitely not

 

[SwirlyMaple]

What’s really missing in modelers is the sound of a reverb tank clanking around when an amp’s been dropped. I think that’ll bridge the gap between amps and modelers.

BiasFX2 has you covered. No, really.

 

[jellodog]

BiasFX2 has you covered. No, really.

Krill Slippin' !!!

 

[JiveTurkey]

I wasn't really interested in spring reverb before but now I'm definitely not