Modelers Losing Their Luster

[MirrorProfiles]

The thing that was cool about Hendrix was the way he played guitar like literally no one before had. It wasn’t his amp. Your jaw would be on the floor just as much if he was plugged into a modeler.

I really don’t care what someone is plugged into, I just care about the performance and sounds. The only time I scrutinize what someone is playing is when I like the way it sounds and I’m curious what their recipe is.

D

I agree it’s all about performance, but it’s how they perform and react to the sound that’s being created. I’m sure he could do amazing stuff with any gear but if you associate someone performing with something in a specific way, I’d rather see that, not a convenient approximation of it. Just like if AC/DC went to silent stage, it would just be weird

 

[Achilles]

It wasn’t his amp.

That was as much a part of it as everything else.

 

[DrewJD82]

I've always wondered why Adam Jones didn't switch to a modelling setup. I know Bill Kelliher uses a bunch of it in the studio, but I'm not sure about on tour? Think he's still transporting chunky amps around? Drew from Karnivool mentioned in an interview that he has a bunch of digital stuff at home, but his live tone just has to be pedals and a 5150 moving some real air.

Bill was using the Helix stuff for clinics until he recently put a Synergy rack together. I think he’ll always take an amp/cab if possible, but he’s not adverse to a modeling setup for clinics. Haven’t seen any cases of him dropping amps for actual shows, though.

 

[OrganicZed]

Killer setup \m/ What's the racked VHT?

That's a GP3 preamp. It was designed to be very much like the vaunted VHT / Fryette Ultra Lead. The rhythm and lead channels sound really good. The clean channel is serviceable, but nothing special.

Unfathomably based, and your surf green fat strat is right up my street too. So... What's the verdict? Tubes or power amps? Cabs or wedges?

I have the Axe routed through the mixer board so that it can run in stereo through the CLR wedges, stereo through some studio monitors (just out of frame), stereo into a headphone amp / IEMs, or stereo into one of the QSC power amps / the two 4x12 cabs. I like every one of those choices for different applications. IEMs are great for playing when my kid is asleep and I use them live. The studio monitors sound amazing for low to medium volume playing and are my primary choice most days. The CLRs and 4x12 cabs only get used when I have the house to myself and can push some dBs. I prefer the sound and feel of the 4x12 cabs (you can't beat that CHUG), but I like having the more versatile tonal options afforded by the "FRFR" setup as well and they can also get very loud.

I have done a side by side comparison the Axe-FX through a Fryette PS-2 (out of frame in this photo) vs a solid state power amp and I preferred the solid state amp. Even with the presence and depth knobs at zero (which is supposed to be the flattest setting) the PS-2 added extra presence and low end that I wasn't easily able to dial out.

An OG Mira! Great guitars.

Good catch! Yes, that is a 2007 core Mira that I bought earlier this year for $1,150. Aside from a little tarnish on the bridge and a few finish swirls, it is in mint condition. It is easily comparable to the others in my collection in terms of tone, playability, and build quality. They are a great value and highly under rated. The PRS single cut is a 2009 SC245 which I was heavily influenced to buy based on your love for that model.

 

[Orvillain]

The thing that was cool about Hendrix was the way he played guitar like literally no one before had. It wasn’t his amp. Your jaw would be on the floor just as much if he was plugged into a modeler.

I really don’t care what someone is plugged into, I just care about the performance and sounds. The only time I scrutinize what someone is playing is when I like the way it sounds and I’m curious what their recipe is.

D

If Hendrix did Machine Gun through a Behringer V-Amp, everyone would laugh at his Youtube video.

 

[FuzzyAce]

My solution has been to have almost every option you described. I don't have an open back cabinet nor a plexi though.

View attachment 15578

Nice collection, but have you tried a Suhr yet?

 

[ragingplatypi]

If Ben Folds is our bar; we've got to do better!

 

[OrganicZed]

@FuzzyAce As you can see, I have a tendency to brand loyalty. I mostly use Fractal, Fryette / VHT, Suhr and PRS. I want more Tom Anderson guitars as well, but I'll have to be more disciplined in my saving habits to afford one again.

 

[TubeStack]

(I liked that Ben Folds album, back in the day.)

 

[FuzzyAce]

@FuzzyAce As you can see, I have a tendency to brand loyalty. I mostly use Fractal, Fryette / VHT, Suhr and PRS. I want more Tom Anderson guitars as well, but I'll have to be more disciplined in my saving habits to afford one again.

Well if you need to unload anything let me know... I'm all about 2 for 1 deals!

 

[JiveTurkey]

 

[MirrorProfiles]

In my mind modelers have lost some of their unique sellingpoints.

- They used to be best solution for going direct…these days there are amps on the market that have digital cabsims that also do a good job.
- They are no longer the only good sounding solution that don’t break your back..there are lightweight tube amps on the market.
- The promise of “every cab is in that box” has gotten some nuance…#aitrdiscussion
- There havent been major innovations for a couple of years, even the low end of the market is good quality…modeling units became a tool…not boxes with unique characteristic.
- Analog preamp pedals cover part of what modelers offer.

I’ll always have a multi efx unit on my board…these days the best have modeling onboard also…so modelers will always be in my set up.
Preamp pedals do gain some ground in my uses…but sec for recording/direct..Kemper remains the bulletproof choice.

What is also different is that where a couple of years ago..I’d be interested in new releases of modelers…today…new releases don’t come with the perception of ground breaking improvement of quality…so I look at it as just another version of what I already have owned almost a decade.

Excellent post. These analog preamps with IR’s are pretty damn cool and I know a few guys who’ve moved from modellers to them.

Looking forward to them doing more advanced poweramp modelling and better I/O options in them

 

[laxu]

Excellent post. These analog preamps with IR’s are pretty damn cool and I know a few guys who’ve moved from modellers to them.

Looking forward to them doing more advanced poweramp modelling and better I/O options in them

To me they are this kinda half-assed thing atm where the poweramp modeling is pretty barebones and the tube preamps are already well emulated by fully digital solutions.

While there is certainly room on the market for devices that are less full blown modelers with fx and stuff, I don't see the tube preamps with IRs being that thing.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

To me they are this kinda half-assed thing atm where the poweramp modeling is pretty barebones and the tube preamps are already well emulated by fully digital solutions.

While there is certainly room on the market for devices that are less full blown modelers with fx and stuff, I don't see the tube preamps with IRs being that thing.

I think the benefit is the simplicity, 1:1 (and familiar) control and removal of doubt about digital doing something weird (which I don’t have but a lot of guitarists still do). With simpler circuits it’s quite nice just having an analog circuit where you twist knobs and that’s it. Sort of like how an analog DS-1 or fuzz pedal is just more fun and nicer than the digital equivalents which sound fine and get the job done but aren’t as fun.

I know you dig the Strymon and BluGuitar pedals but the Friedman one appeals a lot more to me, if I was going in that route (something that isn’t an all in one modeller)

 

[laxu]

I think the benefit is the simplicity, 1:1 (and familiar) control and removal of doubt about digital doing something weird (which I don’t have but a lot of guitarists still do). With simpler circuits it’s quite nice just having an analog circuit where you twist knobs and that’s it. Sort of like how an analog DS-1 or fuzz pedal is just more fun and nicer than the digital equivalents which sound fine and get the job done but aren’t as fun.

I know you dig the Strymon and BluGuitar pedals but the Friedman one appeals a lot more to me, if I was going in that route (something that isn’t an all in one modeller)

I see the competition being things more like the Strymon Iridium, UA pedals and the like, which also have the familiar knobs, IRs and so on. That's where at least to me analog SS vs tubes vs digital doesn't matter a whole lot.

For fun, I've tried my Strymon Riverside as a preamp sim straight into IRs, and it sounds much better when there is a poweramp simulation present. That's why I believe that the poweramp simulation is an important part.

The BluGuitar goes an extra step further by being a full amp, with IMO better approaches to handling poweramp response than most similar pedalboard amps.

 

[unix-guy]

unless you want the specific sound of driven poweramps

I'm guessing you play mostly metal where all the gain / character comes from the preamp?

The power section is very important in the overall feel and character of a lot of amps.

 

[Jarick]

If Hendrix did Machine Gun through a Behringer V-Amp, everyone would laugh at his Youtube video.

BE SURE TO LIKE AND SUBSCRIBE

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

I've always wondered why Adam Jones didn't switch to a modelling setup. I know Bill Kelliher uses a bunch of it in the studio, but I'm not sure about on tour? Think he's still transporting chunky amps around? Drew from Karnivool mentioned in an interview that he has a bunch of digital stuff at home, but his live tone just has to be pedals and a 5150 moving some real air.

Even the air they move is modeled and has that digital sheen....

 

[JiveTurkey]

I'm guessing you play mostly metal where all the gain / character comes from the preamp?

The power section is very important in the overall feel and character of a lot of amps.

Ejay is about as faraway from metal as you're gonna get.

 

[unix-guy]

Ejay is about as faraway from metal as you're gonna get.

Ok... Then he's playing so clean that power amp character doesn't come into play? Or he just doesn't know...