Modelers Losing Their Luster

James Freeman said:
Inspired by Laxu's post.

Are you tired of 1000s of models?
Downsizing to something smaller/simpler?
Going back to amps?
Purging all modelers?
Was it just GAS that passed?
You've grown to hate modelers?
Ain't nobody got time for that?
How's your back?

Discuss
Click to expand...

season 2 homecoming GIF by NBC
 
JasonE said:
I never got rid of my amps and pedals. In fact, I have been buying more pedals all along. I use whatever fits my ears and hands the best at the moment. I was doing some fiddling around this weekend and took a couple of Wampler drive pedals and plugged them into my Two Notes C.A.B.M+ and then into my interface. I was pretty surprised at how good that sounded. It took a little playing around with things in the CAB but man, it dialed right in. Other parts of the song I was working on were done with my Kemper. If I needed something with more gain, I would have hooked the FM9 up.
Click to expand...
There are so many great tools and options these days, and most sound pretty damn good. I was fiddling with the Two Notes Opus last night, just decided to plug it straight into the clean channel of a little solid state Orange amp. I disabled the internal cab IR and in minutes I had a shockingly great tone. Did all the tone tweaking/editing from the pedal interface and it was quite intuitive to use. It's pretty crazy what you can get now for the cost and size.
 
The best thing modeling did for me was teach me what type of rig was right for me. I tried Voxs, Voxs with drive pedals, Fenders with drive pedals, Mesas, and Marshalls. In the end, I learned that I prefer a driven Marshall that will clean up when I turn my guitar volume down but keep the output in the same ballpark (a Plexi). I also learned that for my genres of P&W, ambient, shoegaze, and post-rock, my delays and reverbs need to go before the amp, not after or into an effects loop. I also learned that, for all the speakers out there, V30s and Greenbacks are ubiquitous for a reason.

So if I ever go back to real amps, I'm absolutely confident in what I would buy. However, every time I think about doing this, the same cyclical mind-game takes place:
  • I'd like a real Marshall Plexi
  • But they're too loud for my needs
  • I'll put the Helix Voltage/Plexi Jump/2203 into the effects loop
  • Then I may as well just get a clean power amp
  • Class A/B is supposed to be better than class D, but I'd like to run stereo
  • Then I'll also need a stereo cab, probably a custom build
  • But if it's a custom build, it'll be hard to sell if I don't like it. And how much will it weigh?
  • And if I get a 212, it will be way more beamy and directional than my two co-axial wedges.
  • I could get an open-back, but then it won't have the impact that my 412 IRs do.
  • Maybe I could run it with my wedges
  • So a solid-state amp with a cab and wedges? That's a bit OTT
  • I should probably just stick to what I'm doing
Rinse, repeat.
 
CakeEater said:
The best thing modeling did for me was teach me what type of rig was right for me. I tried Voxs, Voxs with drive pedals, Fenders with drive pedals, Mesas, and Marshalls. In the end, I learned that I prefer a driven Marshall that will clean up when I turn my guitar volume down but keep the output in the same ballpark (a Plexi). I also learned that for my genres of P&W, ambient, shoegaze, and post-rock, my delays and reverbs need to go before the amp, not after or into an effects loop. I also learned that, for all the speakers out there, V30s and Greenbacks are ubiquitous for a reason.

So if I ever go back to real amps, I'm absolutely confident in what I would buy. However, every time I think about doing this, the same cyclical mind-game takes place:
  • I'd like a real Marshall Plexi
  • But they're too loud for my needs
  • I'll put the Helix Voltage/Plexi Jump/2203 into the effects loop
  • Then I may as well just get a clean power amp
  • Class A/B is supposed to be better than class D, but I'd like to run stereo
  • Then I'll also need a stereo cab, probably a custom build
  • But if it's a custom build, it'll be hard to sell if I don't like it. And how much will it weigh?
  • And if I get a 212, it will be way more beamy and directional than my two co-axial wedges.
  • I could get an open-back, but then it won't have the impact that my 412 IRs do.
  • Maybe I could run it with my wedges
  • So a solid-state amp with a cab and wedges? That's a bit OTT
  • I should probably just stick to what I'm doing
Rinse, repeat.
Click to expand...

My solution has been to have almost every option you described. I don't have an open back cabinet nor a plexi though.

1702300163103.png
 
This is a question where I think looking at the world of keyboardists really gives insight.

Ben Folds is never going to play a Korg, Yamaha or Roland workstation at a concert. He will pay for people to haul a piano to the gig, that he’ll then jump on and chuck his bench at.

However, almost every function band keyboardist has a workstation, that has pretty much every sound.

Amongst several other instruments, most pro keyboardists have a $3000 Nord electro. It does only a dozen classic sounds exceedingly well, feels great to play, has a workflow most people are happy with, and it’s red.

And if I’m a teenager, I’m going to buy a $100 controller and steal all the sounds I need through via software.

Anyone can get inspiration from any of these scenarios.

There’s guitar equivalents to all of this.
 
I've always wondered why Adam Jones didn't switch to a modelling setup. I know Bill Kelliher uses a bunch of it in the studio, but I'm not sure about on tour? Think he's still transporting chunky amps around? Drew from Karnivool mentioned in an interview that he has a bunch of digital stuff at home, but his live tone just has to be pedals and a 5150 moving some real air.
 
ragingplatypi said:
This is a question where I think looking at the world of keyboardists really gives insight.

Ben Folds is never going to play a Korg, Yamaha or Roland workstation at a concert. He will pay for people to haul a piano to the gig, that he’ll then jump on and chuck his bench at.

However, almost every function band keyboardist has a workstation, that has pretty much every sound.

Amongst several other instruments, most pro keyboardists have a $3000 Nord electro. It does only a dozen classic sounds exceedingly well, feels great to play, has a workflow most people are happy with, and it’s red.

And if I’m a teenager, I’m going to buy a $100 controller and steal all the sounds I need through via software.

Anyone can get inspiration from any of these scenarios.

There’s guitar equivalents to all of this.
Click to expand...
If Ben Folds is our bar; we've got to do better!
 
Orvillain said:
I've always wondered why Adam Jones didn't switch to a modelling setup. I know Bill Kelliher uses a bunch of it in the studio, but I'm not sure about on tour? Think he's still transporting chunky amps around? Drew from Karnivool mentioned in an interview that he has a bunch of digital stuff at home, but his live tone just has to be pedals and a 5150 moving some real air.
Click to expand...
I’m glad they don’t tbh. I think it’s rad when bands persevere with the impractical nature of real amps. Seeing Tool live means hearing him blast his super bass and diezels and whatever else takes his fancy.

Imagine if they could raise Jimi Hendrix from the dead for one night only and you went to see him live and he was playing a modeller, I’d feel like it’s a bit of a cop out.

Modellers clearly make more sense for most situations these days but there’s a romantic element to the real gear (especially if it’s strongly associated with the artist) that we shouldn’t pretend doesn’t exist.

I saw Blur play Wembley stadium earlier this year and Graham Coxon was playing a non-MV Marshall and a 4x12. I was fucking miles away to the point where he could have been playing a zoom pedal but he was still reacting to the volume on the stage and performing the amp in a way that wouldn’t have been the same with anything else
 
MirrorProfiles said:
there’s a romantic element to the real gear
Click to expand...
This is it. And I think it helps retain the romantic element to the music.

In a world where people have largely given up on having huge vinyl collections, and where CD's and physical media have basically become that thing you have in the cupboard and never look at, for so so many people .... I think we could really do with preserving our sense of reality, our connection to the fire of the world.

NONCE POETRY!
 
CakeEater said:
The best thing modeling did for me was teach me what type of rig was right for me. I tried Voxs, Voxs with drive pedals, Fenders with drive pedals, Mesas, and Marshalls. In the end, I learned that I prefer a driven Marshall that will clean up when I turn my guitar volume down but keep the output in the same ballpark (a Plexi). I also learned that for my genres of P&W, ambient, shoegaze, and post-rock, my delays and reverbs need to go before the amp, not after or into an effects loop. I also learned that, for all the speakers out there, V30s and Greenbacks are ubiquitous for a reason.

So if I ever go back to real amps, I'm absolutely confident in what I would buy. However, every time I think about doing this, the same cyclical mind-game takes place:
  • I'd like a real Marshall Plexi
  • But they're too loud for my needs
  • I'll put the Helix Voltage/Plexi Jump/2203 into the effects loop
  • Then I may as well just get a clean power amp
  • Class A/B is supposed to be better than class D, but I'd like to run stereo
  • Then I'll also need a stereo cab, probably a custom build
  • But if it's a custom build, it'll be hard to sell if I don't like it. And how much will it weigh?
  • And if I get a 212, it will be way more beamy and directional than my two co-axial wedges.
  • I could get an open-back, but then it won't have the impact that my 412 IRs do.
  • Maybe I could run it with my wedges
  • So a solid-state amp with a cab and wedges? That's a bit OTT
  • I should probably just stick to what I'm doing
Rinse, repeat.
Click to expand...

Or, get a Friedman….

D
 
MirrorProfiles said:
I’m glad they don’t tbh. I think it’s rad when bands persevere with the impractical nature of real amps. Seeing Tool live means hearing him blast his super bass and diezels and whatever else takes his fancy.

Imagine if they could raise Jimi Hendrix from the dead for one night only and you went to see him live and he was playing a modeller, I’d feel like it’s a bit of a cop out.

Modellers clearly make more sense for most situations these days but there’s a romantic element to the real gear (especially if it’s strongly associated with the artist) that we shouldn’t pretend doesn’t exist.

I saw Blur play Wembley stadium earlier this year and Graham Coxon was playing a non-MV Marshall and a 4x12. I was fucking miles away to the point where he could have been playing a zoom pedal but he was still reacting to the volume on the stage and performing the amp in a way that wouldn’t have been the same with anything else
Click to expand...

The thing that was cool about Hendrix was the way he played guitar like literally no one before had. It wasn’t his amp. Your jaw would be on the floor just as much if he was plugged into a modeler.

I really don’t care what someone is plugged into, I just care about the performance and sounds. The only time I scrutinize what someone is playing is when I like the way it sounds and I’m curious what their recipe is.

D
 
dk_ace said:
Or, get a Friedman….

D
Click to expand...
Oh I've considered that, believe me. I do wonder how good a Little Sister combo would be with a Redback in it. I feel like that's the compromise for wanting a 112 open-back combo to sound big and heavy.
 
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