Fractal Audio Firmware Update Thread

[ᛗᛜᛜᚺDᛜᎶ Ꮤᛨᚳᚴ]

As an owner of a Mark V I actually feel like the Fractal Mark 5 band is better. You seriously have finer
grain control of it than with the actual amp. Actual amp you cannot vary by thousands.... a little nudge
on the physical slider and you may have gone too far. Nudge it back down and you went too far the
other way. Rinse and repeat until you start too think you need another amp.

In the Fractal the ability to finetune the EQ is far more accessible and available to the user.

So it's not authentic then?

 

[la szum]

 

[Mongillo19]

Yup. 3 modes on Channel 3. Extreme/IV/IIC+

And those are all separate models in the new update along with their "bright" channels as sperate

 

[la szum]

 

[la szum]

Still not parting with the Mark V. Just going to have more Mark V in my life. Soon.

 

[Piing]

View attachment 15842

But I will never experience how it smells

 

[Orvillain]

24 beta 1

Twenty Phwoooaaaaaaarrr.

 

[FractalAudio]

As an owner of a Mark V I actually feel like the Fractal Mark 5 band is better. You seriously have finer
grain control of it than with the actual amp. Actual amp you cannot vary by thousands.... a little nudge
on the physical slider and you may have gone too far. Nudge it back down and you went too far the
other way. Rinse and repeat until you start too think you need another amp.

In the Fractal the ability to finetune the EQ is far more accessible and available to the user.

The Mark series graphic EQ sucks. I know some people want authenticity but it's simply a bad design.

Here's a graph of the response vs. slider position:

Over 80% of the slider's range you only get about +/- 2dB of variation. Then there's 8dB of variation in the last 10% on each end. Stupid.

If they had simply used 10K pots instead of 50K the response would be:

 

[2112]

@FractalAudio what are the main differences with the Mark V "Mark IV" and "IIC+" modes and the originals? The Mark V "Mark IV" mode sounds different at the same settings as the dedicated Mark IV model but is that just different tapers/tolerances or actual changes to the circuit?

Gotta love that Mesa have a Mark IV amp, the Triaxis Lead 2 Green mode, the Mark V "Mark IV" mode and the Mark VII "Mark IV" mode :s

 

[FractalAudio]

@FractalAudio what are the main differences with the Mark V "Mark IV" and "IIC+" modes and the originals? The Mark V "Mark IV" mode sounds different at the same settings as the dedicated Mark IV model but is that just different tapers/tolerances or actual changes to the circuit?

Gotta love that Mesa have a Mark IV amp, the Triaxis Lead 2 Green mode, the Mark V "Mark IV" mode and the Mark VII "Mark IV" mode :s

Mostly different tapers but there are some minor differences in the circuit too. Sometimes I think Mesa doesn't even know what's in their old amps.

Note that the "Gain" control on a Mark V is equivalent to the Overdrive control on a Mark II/IV. The actual gain control on a Mark V is fixed (same as the JPIIC+). In the Axe-Fx you can actually change the Gain control using the Ideal tone controls. You'll see that when choosing the model it will be initialized to a value (4.4 for the Mark V).

 

[iaresee]

The Mark series graphic EQ sucks. I know some people want authenticity but it's simply a bad design.

Here's a graph of the response vs. slider position:

View attachment 15853

Over 80% of the slider's range you only get about +/- 2dB of variation. Then there's 8dB of variation in the last 10% on each end. Stupid.

If they had simply used 10K pots instead of 50K the response would be:

View attachment 15854

Thank you for bucking the "let's be authentic" trend here.

 

[DrewJD82]

Yeah, as a former Mark IV owner and avid fan of the Marks in the AxeFX, I have zero gripes about the 5-band as it is now. I totally get the desire for an authentic one, just don’t take away that idealized version, pretty please!

 

[laxu]

Thank you for bucking the "let's be authentic" trend here.

Amen. There's "this arguably bad design makes it sound a particular way" and then there's "this just works poorly".

Has Mesa actually improved the graphic EQ on their newer amp models liket V, VII or JP2C? Or are they repeating the same issue so people don't get all up in arms over "I put my real Mark 2C+ at these graphic EQ settings and the Mark V didn't sound anything like it, the Mark V sucks!"

 

[James Freeman]

 

[James Freeman]

I blame Gibson for everything.

 

[FractalAudio]

Amen. There's "this arguably bad design makes it sound a particular way" and then there's "this just works poorly".

Has Mesa actually improved the graphic EQ on their newer amp models liket V, VII or JP2C? Or are they repeating the same issue so people don't get all up in arms over "I put my real Mark 2C+ at these graphic EQ settings and the Mark V didn't sound anything like it, the Mark V sucks!"

The design has not changed in decades.

My guess is Randall Smith copied the circuit out of a book in the original Mark II. Remember, he was a tech. He was not an engineer and didn't really know fully how things worked.

This is likely the circuit he copied:

This was a typical graphic EQ design from the early '80s. Then people figured out how to do the same thing using op-amps and just resistors and capacitors or replacing the inductors with gyrators (either transistor or op-amp based).

My first electronics project in college was a graphic equalizer. There were no computers back then so I had to do all the math by hand with paper and pencil. It wasn't easy. I used op-amps. Worked well. I gigged with it. I doubt a tech would have the know-how to analyze the circuit and determine the proper values. Randall probably found a supply of 50K sliders and went with that not realizing that it affected the behavior.

Now they're in the difficult position of "the EQ on the new Mark XVII doesn't work the same as my old Mark III, wah, wah, I can't copy my settings, this sucks!!!".

 

[James Freeman]

BOSS released the GE-6 back in 1978, with proper S-Taper sliders (10KG, Panasonic part number), sounds 'correct' to this day.
I'm shooting myself in the foot here.


Linear sliders were still very common and they are in fact the CORRECT sliders for the Mark amps despite that they don't do shit for most of the travel.
I still want to have the authentic experience, scoop a TON of mids and still have plenty.

 

[laxu]

It's interesting how much there's "well we had some parts and we figured out how to make them work" in the tube amp world vs hard science to measure stuff and make an optimal solution. It's part tech, part art where some makers earn a reputation because they stumble upon a good sounding solution.

I'm not surprised most tube amps out there are all variations of the same designs.

 

[TSJMajesty]

@FractalAudio I don't feel all that strongly one way or the other, but I sure would love it if, when I switch to what would simply be a different mode on the real Mk V (or any Mesa that's laid out in a similar way) to a different one..., or switch to the 'Bright' version of that same mode, the GEQ's settings would carry over.

 

[TSJMajesty]

It's part tech, part art