Helix 3.8 when?

[sashimi]

I am confused by that as well.

Does that mean the old preset doesn’t get affected by the changes? When does it get affected, once it is re-saved? But then you couldn’t make any changes to your old presets without incurring unintended changes. Does a whole new preset need to be created?

 

[PorcinePicker]

This part I really don't understand how they do.

More to the point, I don't understand why.

If an amp starts out as counterintuitive to dial in (and I find many of the Line 6 models to be so), and they improve the underlying engine, they do some jiggery-pokery so that the model is still as difficult to dial in? Hey, it's a choice....

 

[banned]

More to the point, I don't understand why.

If an amp starts out as counterintuitive to dial in (and I find many of the Line 6 models to be so), and they improve the underlying engine, they do some jiggery-pokery so that the model is still as difficult to dial in? Hey, it's a choice....

Honestly, I have zero issues dialing any of them - they sound excellent. I play through a guitar cab, and all I do is plug and play. Very little tweaking required.

If you're playing into an "FRFR", yes, a lot of tweaking and finagling may come into play. I don't think L6 applies much post processing at all, which can affect user experience.

Should they apply some secret sauce (compression, eq etc.)? I'd rather not. I know from my comparison with actual amps that the modeling is very true to the original when played through the same speaker cab. And I'm comfortable with that approach.

 

[mikah912]

More to the point, I don't understand why.

If an amp starts out as counterintuitive to dial in (and I find many of the Line 6 models to be so), and they improve the underlying engine, they do some jiggery-pokery so that the model is still as difficult to dial in? Hey, it's a choice....

I don't believe that's what @Digital Igloo is saying at all. The simplest way I understand it is (using your example above):

• If you have a preset where you've tamed a "counterintuitive to dial in" amp the way you like it, that existing preset will not change much so as not to disrupt your workflow and force you to rebuild the patch from the ground up.
• If you have given up previously on a "counterintuitive to dial in" amp, perhaps you start fresh again building a patch from the ground up because the resulting engine changes (and cab changes) should make it a significantly more accurate experience this time around.

 

[PorcinePicker]

I don't believe that's what @Digital Igloo is saying at all. The simplest way I understand it is (using your example above):

• If you have a preset where you've tamed a "counterintuitive to dial in" amp the way you like it, that existing preset will not change much so as not to disrupt your workflow and force you to rebuild the patch from the ground up.
• If you have given up previously on a "counterintuitive to dial in" amp, perhaps you start fresh again building a patch from the ground up because the resulting engine changes (and cab changes) should make it a significantly more accurate experience this time around.

Might there be a contradiction in there? If the engine changes don't force you to rebuild the patch, then starting from the ground up should render the same results, no?

 

[PorcinePicker]

If you're playing into an ""FRFR"" [...]

You mean to tell me that there are other alternatives?

 

[mikah912]

Might there be a contradiction in there? If the engine changes don't force you to rebuild the patch, then starting from the ground up should render the same results, no?

Why would it? If you found it counterintuitive to dial in before due to lack of accuracy or fidelity (meaning you set EQ, volume, etc. way differently then you would on the real life amp), it should now be intuitive starting from scratch to set those more inline like you were used to.

 

[PorcinePicker]

Why would it? If you found it counterintuitive to dial in before due to lack of accuracy or fidelity (meaning you set EQ, volume, etc. way differently then you would on the real life amp), it should now be intuitive starting from scratch to set those more inline like you were used to.

I think we're not looking at this the same way. It sounds like you're pretty happy in the Helix world, and I'll grant that my Stomp has basically been in storage because I had so much trouble getting it to sound the way I wanted.

I'm just going off the quoted post, "We run some clever scripting in the background so the sound and feel of existing presets aren't affected." In that case, the same settings will render the same result. It may sound better, but (to pick some numbers at random) you still have to run the bass at 10, the treble at 2 and do a little dance. (At least that was my experience, the two or three times I tried to make a go of it.)

 

[Digital Igloo]

Would be good to know if he is referring to (a) making the whole hardware system run more efficiently (?) (b) continually improving Amp / EFX Algorithms (?) or (c) both (?)

Perhaps a bit of A and a bit of B. 3.80 is primarily an amp and (minor) effect update, but there are always little things we do behind the scenes. The reason updates have been far and few between is because the team's working on other big stuff. Doesn't mean we're done with Helix/HX, however.

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

The JVM model of the 3.80 update sounds awesome!
#positiveaffirmation

 

[dronerstone]

The JVM model of the 3.80 update sounds awesome!
#positiveaffirmation

They really nailed the LAB Series!

 

[banned]

You mean to tell me that there are other alternatives?

Honestly, for me, the only thing worse than "FRFR" are IEMs.

Nothing compares to playing through a guitar cab with a guitar speaker. The moment I tried my modeler this way, my entire search ended. I shortly sold all my amps. There was no discernible difference in tone or feel in my testing at volume versus the real amp.

 

[banned]

Perhaps a bit of A and a bit of B. 3.80 is primarily an amp and (minor) effect update, but there are always little things we do behind the scenes. The reason updates have been far and few between is because the team's working on other big stuff. Doesn't mean we're done with Helix/HX, however.

Would love to know directionally what some of the big stuff is. Surely, there has to be something here in the speaker/cab modeling space as I feel like that's where the big opportunity for gains are.

IRs are great and work perfectly - but if what you're playing through sucks - it ain't worth anything. You can't replicate the feel and tone of a 12" guitar speaker in the room through a 5" monitor speaker. It's a totally different experience.

Helix is great but Powercab sucks - hopefully there's something better coming down the road.

 

[spawnofthesith]

Honestly, for me, the only thing worse than ""FRFR"" are IEMs.

Nothing compares to playing through a guitar cab with a guitar speaker. The moment I tried my modeler this way, my entire search ended. I shortly sold all my amps. There was no discernible difference in tone or feel in my testing at volume versus the real amp.

I use IEMs with my band out of certain necessities, and while free ears to embrace the room tone is unbeatable, it still makes a WORLD of difference whether your IEMs are being fed by a mic'ed cab vs any kind of direct signal, whether modelling or even a real amp into a load/IRs. Just no comparison

 

[GTR37]

I’m not expecting it in 3.8 or even at all but I’d just really like to see a solid representation of the Mesa Mark lead channel. It’s such a unique, iconic tone that is so poorly represented in the Helix in kind of an unforgivable way.

If I had the magic monkeys paw I’d get that situated before adding yet another bf/sf Fender circuit. Or how about 6G2 and 6G3 - Brown Fenders are totally unrepresented in Helix.

Maybe we could add 15 more 515x variants.

A BF-2 would be such a killer addition to Helix. Those of us who play a little Tool from time to time would get real mileage out of it. It’s also on probably a billion albums.

I just want a Bogner XTC 101b

Perhaps a bit of A and a bit of B. 3.80 is primarily an amp and (minor) effect update, but there are always little things we do behind the scenes. The reason updates have been far and few between is because the team's working on other big stuff. Doesn't mean we're done with Helix/HX, however.

how mANy MAps
How MaNy MAps??

Just nod if between 5 and 14

 

[SillyOctpuss]

I just want a Bogner XTC 101b

how mANy MAps
How MaNy MAps??

Just nod if between 5 and 14

I think it's only two amps this time.

 

[dronerstone]

Nothing compares to playing through a guitar cab with a guitar speaker. The moment I tried my modeler this way, my entire search ended.

There's a lot of truth to this, I believe - especially when applying a high cut via Global EQ.

I have tried the Floor through a few power amps/fx returns and into guitar cabs that way:

- LAB Series (various models from 100-200W) w/ either 2x12 or 1x15
- Fender 1994 "Evil" Twin 100W 2x12
- Boss Katana MKII Head w/ 2x12
- Ampeg VT-22 (padded input, flat EQ)

Every single time it sounded glorious and responded just like an amp should.

 

[pipelineaudio]

I'll take IEMs every single time by leaps and bounds. Especially if I care about how it sounds to the audience

 

[banned]

I'll take IEMs every single time by leaps and bounds. Especially if I care about how it sounds to the audience

If the amp tone and feel that I'm playing through doesn't inspire ME, my playing goes to absolute crap. Playing through IEMs is like playing through a tunnel for me - I can hear a sound but it's nothing like the sound I get of the amp in the room. This especially matters if you're a feel/dynamics player playing in that Andy Timmons style like I am. The sound from the cab interacts with the guitar and vice versa.

That said, I haven't tried the $1500 custom molded IEMs - maybe they provide a lot of the feel that I'm missing when I switch to IEMs. Right now, I inevitably have to leave one ear out and it still doesn't come close to a good cab in a good room.

 

[banned]

There's a lot of truth to this, I believe - especially when applying a high cut via Global EQ.

I have tried the Floor through a few power amps/fx returns and into guitar cabs that way:

- LAB Series (various models from 100-200W) w/ either 2x12 or 1x15
- Fender 1994 "Evil" Twin 100W 2x12
- Boss Katana MKII Head w/ 2x12
- Ampeg VT-22 (padded input, flat EQ)

Every single time it sounded glorious and responded just like an amp should.

That's the thing - when you plug into a cab, you no longer have to fiddle with low pass freq/slope etc.

It's plug and play. That high cut stuff etc is when you're playing through "FRFR" / IEM, trying to make a flat response speaker sound like a guitar speaker.