Helix 3.8 when?

[Sascha Franck]

That high cut stuff etc is when you're playing through """FRFR""" / IEM, trying to make a flat response speaker sound like a guitar speaker.

That's usually what IRs are for. No need for any cuts in case you use the right ones.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Going direct with a guitar live sucks ass. As a performer, or audience member, sorry

And trying to make it sound like mic'ing a cab is some nightmare or hard thing to do for a sound guy is also absurd, but I think we've bouted about that before

I want to try and clear this up, as its too easy to end up just making it a bicker fest or insulting people who may not see certain perspectives (yes I am very often guilty of this, so let me dial it back)

What you would be effectively claiming here is that you can get a better sound to the audience if you choose:

Scenario A - In three minutes, with one microphone, that is in danger of being tripped over, fall over, moved by mechanical stage resonance (or hell even be moved by the sound itself). This mic will also contain any stage resonance and will be containing the leakage of any sound on that stage leaking into it which 100000% will contain bass and drums so will need to be high passed and then some. This channel's only saving grace will be whatever processing is available on the console, but keep in mind, in a Venn Diagram, ALL of this will also be available to scenario B

rather than

Scenario B - A top recording studio, with a competent engineer, with all the time in the world, with all the mics in the world, in a isolated and well treated acoustic space, with no outside sources leaking into it, no danger of the mic moving, no need to eq, gate or filter because of leakage, but rather to do all of these things in order to enhance the sound, with all the signal processing in a studio to make this recording the best it could possibly be

I would do my usual 5000 dollar or guitar collection challenge here with anyone who thinks they could pull this off in an ABX test, but in this case it would be far too easy to pick Scenario A as it would be the whimpy bassless tone with the snare drum and cymbals playing thru it the whole time

Yes, Fallacious Argument from Antiquity, we had to do this back in the dinosaur days, no, it doesn't change physics

 

[pipelineaudio]

Why stop there? Guitars are just hopelessly inadequate replacements for what every guitarist truly desires -

Lies, we're just after the harpist herself

 

[spawnofthesith]

I want to try and clear this up, as its too easy to end up just making it a bicker fest or insulting people who may not see certain perspectives (yes I am very often guilty of this, so let me dial it back)

What you would be effectively claiming here is that you can get a better sound to the audience if you choose:

Scenario A - In three minutes, with one microphone, that is in danger of being tripped over, fall over, moved by mechanical stage resonance (or hell even be moved by the sound itself). This mic will also contain any stage resonance and will be containing the leakage of any sound on that stage leaking into it which 100000% will contain bass and drums so will need to be high passed and then some. This channel's only saving grace will be whatever processing is available on the console, but keep in mind, in a Venn Diagram, ALL of this will also be available to scenario B

rather than

Scenario B - A top recording studio, with a competent engineer, with all the time in the world, with all the mics in the world, in a isolated and well treated acoustic space, with no outside sources leaking into it, no danger of the mic moving, no need to eq, gate or filter because of leakage, but rather to do all of these things in order to enhance the sound, with all the signal processing in a studio to make this recording the best it could possibly be

I would do my usual 5000 dollar or guitar collection challenge here with anyone who thinks they could pull this off in an ABX test, but in this case it would be far too easy to pick Scenario A as it would be the whimpy bassless tone with the snare drum and cymbals playing thru it the whole time

Yes, Fallacious Argument from Antiquity, we had to do this back in the dinosaur days, no, it doesn't change physics

 

[pipelineaudio]

Evasion noted

 

[spawnofthesith]

Evasion noted

Have you ever attended a concert with guitars going direct? Especially in club and smaller size venues? How about with one guitar player on stage going direct and the other not?

I guess one could bring up a handful of big bands using modellers in arena type shows. Matters a lot less there. Overall sound quality is also notoriously kinda horrible seeing concerts in sports arenas so its a bit moot anyway


IRs are great and all but I will take the sound of a mic'ed cab over an IR 1000% of the time

 

[ian_dissonance]

Serious, non-snark question. Have you ever played a GOOD amp IRL? I see a lot of these types of comments and I get it I guess if you are young enough to never have cracked open a 5150 through a 412 or any equivalent "I grew up in the 80s and 90s bencmark amp" I could see it I guess...?

Bro, I am 40 years old and have been at this for 25 years. I’ve owned Mesa, Peavey, Marshall, Carvin, Splawn and even more cabs from all of them and Randall. I’ve also been through school for studio engineering and spent many of the last 25 years doing live sound in places from basements to 400+ cap venues. My personal experience is MOST (not all) guitarists who NEED big volume are making up for something, personally or musically, lol.

Why stop there? Guitars are just hopelessly inadequate replacements for what every guitarist truly desires -

I’m only like 8 strings short, and I’d still plug it into my helix for whammy fx.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Have you ever attended a concert with guitars going direct? Especially in club and smaller size venues? How about with one guitar player on stage going direct and the other not?

I guess one could bring up a handful of big bands using modellers in arena type shows. Matters a lot less there. Overall sound quality is also notoriously kinda horrible seeing concerts in sports arenas so its a bit moot anyway

Yes, and I'm paid to do it. The direct guitars are the standard at the very top of the industry nearly every single time. Do you want to respond to what I actually took the time to post instead?

IRs are great and all but I will take the sound of a mic'ed cab over an IR 1000% of the time

This right here shows that you aren't even understanding the words we are using here

 

[spawnofthesith]

Yes, and I'm paid to do it. The direct guitars are the standard at the very top of the industry nearly every single time. Do you want to respond to what I actually took the time to post instead?


This right here shows that you aren't even understanding the words we are using here

Most of what you posted isn't worth responding to. The bolded part is just objectively false. Unless maybe the industries you're speaking of are P&W or something niche like djentprogmetal

I love IRs for recording. Playing live? Not the same feel, and believe it or not being able to feel the vibration from a guitar cab makes a huge difference. But you are well documented here saying "feel doesn't exist" and the like and have also expressed that you aren't even really much of a guitar player, so

 

[Sleezy E]

WooUd SOMboDy meN T ion ReapEr AlREAdy!!1!

 

[spawnofthesith]

I reaper


I miss using logic though I should snag that again

 

[Digital Igloo]

So much looking forward to knowing what that is.

I guarantee they'll be controversial, and not in a "oh, all gear generates controversy" sort of way.

 

[ian_dissonance]

I guarantee they'll be controversial, and not in a "oh, all gear generates controversy" sort of way.

2RU, 12 Input mixer with 6 stereo auxes and HX native DSP on 2 channels. I’ll take two if they’re under $1300.

 

[SillyOctpuss]

I guarantee they'll be controversial, and not in a "oh, all gear generates controversy" sort of way.

And queue someone mocking up and posting Line 6 dildos and buttplugs in 5.....4.......3.....2......1......

 

[dronerstone]

And queue someone mocking up and posting Line 6 dildos and buttplugs in 5.....4.......3.....2......1......

No Midi -> won't buy

 

[SillyOctpuss]

No Midi -> won't buy

of course it'll have midi. This is a Line 6 dildo sir. These people aren't amateurs.

 

[spawnofthesith]

of course it'll have midi. This is a Line 6 dildo sir. These people aren't amateurs.

View attachment 31179

Better be able to send and receive midi tempo

 

[JiveTurkey]

Bro, I am 40 years old and have been at this for 25 years. I’ve owned Mesa, Peavey, Marshall, Carvin, Splawn and even more cabs from all of them and Randall. I’ve also been through school for studio engineering and spent many of the last 25 years doing live sound in places from basements to 400+ cap venues. My personal experience is MOST (not all) guitarists who NEED big volume are making up for something, personally or musically, lol.

I’m only like 8 strings short, and I’d still plug it into my helix for whammy fx.

I may not agree on the IEM approach but I do appreciate the explanation and your experience

 

[molul]

I guarantee they'll be controversial, and not in a "oh, all gear generates controversy" sort of way.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I want to try and clear this up, as its too easy to end up just making it a bicker fest or insulting people who may not see certain perspectives (yes I am very often guilty of this, so let me dial it back)

What you would be effectively claiming here is that you can get a better sound to the audience if you choose:

Scenario A - In three minutes, with one microphone, that is in danger of being tripped over, fall over, moved by mechanical stage resonance (or hell even be moved by the sound itself). This mic will also contain any stage resonance and will be containing the leakage of any sound on that stage leaking into it which 100000% will contain bass and drums so will need to be high passed and then some. This channel's only saving grace will be whatever processing is available on the console, but keep in mind, in a Venn Diagram, ALL of this will also be available to scenario B

rather than

Scenario B - A top recording studio, with a competent engineer, with all the time in the world, with all the mics in the world, in a isolated and well treated acoustic space, with no outside sources leaking into it, no danger of the mic moving, no need to eq, gate or filter because of leakage, but rather to do all of these things in order to enhance the sound, with all the signal processing in a studio to make this recording the best it could possibly be

I would do my usual 5000 dollar or guitar collection challenge here with anyone who thinks they could pull this off in an ABX test, but in this case it would be far too easy to pick Scenario A as it would be the whimpy bassless tone with the snare drum and cymbals playing thru it the whole time

Yes, Fallacious Argument from Antiquity, we had to do this back in the dinosaur days, no, it doesn't change physics

Guitar playing from the guitar player's POV is not about AB tests though. If IEMs trip your trigger; have at it. If playing through a plastic turd of a powered wedge trips your trigger, have at it. If playing through a Triple Recto trips your trigger, have at it. You can "correct" someone all you like but if they are successful in their own self-set criteria; your correction is falling on deaf ears. Sometimes literally