Fractal Talk

[Moondog Wily]

This is all pretty interesting. I will have to play with the input contol on my FXIII (I think I am currently at about 60 using my PRS HBII with 58/15 LT TCI pups). I was just listening to what was being said on FAS forum "set it to loudest guitar and forget it". I will have to see if it makes a difference on any of my axes! I am down with it being "preset adjustable" as well so I can set it with my presets and not have to assume that one setting is right for all guitars.

 

[TSJMajesty]

If that was true, I really wouldn't waste my time changing the input sensitivity to optimize my signal.

If you mostly use your Majesty with the humbuckers in it, then unsurprisingly this wouldn't be something you'd notice with a nice strong input signal.

True.

 

[TSJMajesty]

I see the Axe now has meters on the I/O page.

With my Majesty, I have it set way down at 4.3% so as to not get the clip warning when I hit the guitar's boost. Without the boost on, the meter goes to about 2/3 with regular strumming. And I can see, from the meter, that the bridge is indeed a tad hotter than the neck PU.

If I didn't use the boost, I could go as high as 24%.

 

[Mongillo19]

I see the Axe now has meters on the I/O page.

With my Majesty, I have it set way down at 4.3% so as to not get the clip warning when I hit the guitar's boost. Without the boost on, the meter goes to about 2/3 with regular strumming. And I can see, from the meter, that the bridge is indeed a tad hotter than the neck PU.

If I didn't use the boost, I could go as high as 24%.

Do you have the Mark I or II?

 

[yeky83]

Is this input gain tone difference thing on the FM9? Maybe it’s a bug, someone file it in? IIRC Fractal units’ main input pre-emphasizes the treble before ADC and de-emphasizes it in DSP in order to maximize noise performance, maybe it’s not compensating properly? It’s not supposed to change the tone.

 

[TSJMajesty]

Do you have the Mark I or II?

II

 

[TSJMajesty]

It’s not supposed to change the tone.

That's what I understand to be the case. But it's hard to tell if there's something amiss in the unit itself, when you're switching guitars. If one guitar sounds good, and another one doesn't, I thought that was a preset issue, i.e., you just have to build your presets around your guitars. Even if 2 different guitars both sound fine through an amp.

 

[Piing]

At 1:04 of this video of the TONEX PEDAL I was surprisingly amazed with the beautiful dreamy shimmer reverb. Something out of this world. Exceeding Eventide.

Just keep watching.... until 1:20

 

[State of Epicicity]

Personally, if I were regularly using several guitars going into the Axe-FX III, I would memorize it make a chart of the best input sensitivity for each one. I'm fanatical about optimizing S/N ratio, and even though I think the Input Block noise gate is stellar, I still don't want to leave any optimization on the table. I would be even more emphatic about this when recording.

 

[Stone]

don't want to leave any optimization on the table

Aye Im the same

 

[paisleywookiee]

Personally, if I were regularly using several guitars going into the Axe-FX III, I would memorize it make a chart of the best input sensitivity for each one. I'm fanatical about optimizing S/N ratio, and even though I think the Input Block noise gate is stellar, I still don't want to leave any optimization on the table. I would be even more emphatic about this when recording.

That’s what I’ll end up doing. Not a big deal.

 

[laxu]

I have a wide variety of guitars and just set it based on the hottest one. Never had any issue on the FM3, or Axe-Fx 3. It doesn't behave any different than my Strymon Iridium either.

 

[la szum]

Hmm. That doesn't seem right. I can't remember how many times I've read someone post over at FAS that that setting doesn't affect the tone. I mean, I get that that level needs to be set correctly, but I was under the impression you set it as high as possible for your hottest guitar, and then it should be fine for any other guitars as well, assuming you dial in presets specific to each type of guitar.

I am not saying people can be wrong.... but people can be wrong.

I'd also trust what Cliff said about it and leave it at that.

I have a wide variety of guitars and just set it based on the hottest one. Never had any issue on the FM3, or Axe-Fx 3. It doesn't behave any different than my Strymon Iridium either.

Wasn't there a kerfuffle about this at the Fractal Forum and Cliff chimed in saying it wasn't the Great Enchilada some
people were making it out to be. That it can be a set it and forget it type of thing with no tonal shortcomings.

 

[jellodog]

I am not saying people can be wrong.... but people can be wrong.

I'd also trust what Cliff said about it and leave it at that.



Wasn't there a kerfuffle about this at the Fractal Forum and Cliff chimed in saying it wasn't the Great Enchilada some
people were making it out to be. That it can be a set it and forget it type of thing with no tonal shortcomings.

The thing is: I've read the manuals, I've read almost everything on the FAS forum concerning this and all the advice from the experts, I've read Cliff's words... and yet... here we are. There is a difference that you can hear if you have low output pickups and go between 50% and 100%.

At 100% it sounds fuller and there is more low end, for the same volume settings i.e. nothing else changed.

However...

I have some new data to present: It's not the same for all guitars. Post to follow.

 

[jellodog]

@la szum So I just tested this again with an accomplice ( @hemmelight ) who has near perfect hearing and certainly way better hearing than mine. The difference was confirmed - so I can rule out madness on my part.

Using my daily driver EBMM Cutlass the difference was easily noticeable. At 100% much fuller (more low end) and more lush sounding on the single coil neck pickup than when sensitivity was set to 50%. Remember, I can only fully light the amber input light with this guitar - it's not possible to tickle the red on the neck pickup which is what I mostly use as a cleanish player.

Next up... Suhr Classic S on the single coil neck pickup: There is much less noticeable change. Only a slight difference but much more subtle. Nothing that I would bother worrying about. I would be happy using 50% or 100% with this guitar, as others have said - it just doesn't matter.

So here's the thing. The Cutlass has a bufferred output. The guitar takes a battery. The Suhr has regular traditional pickups.

Another interesting point: I also used to have the same Fishman Fluence Tele pickups as @paisleywookiee and it's interesting to note that they are not quite like active pickups, but they are also not "normal" pickups and are battery powered. I don't know if the output from the Fishman's circuit is buffered, but I guess it could be?

It could be significant that both Wookie and I aren't sending regular guitar output signals when we notice these differences. So is it the low output or is it to do with a buffer or something else?

I should clarify that the Cutlass pickups themselves are regular Lollar '64 Strat pickups. There is just the EBMM silent circuit and buffer after them - the pickups themselves are not active. Also 50% doesn't sound terrible or anything; it's just that 100% is better and when you hear it you find yourself saying "Ahh... there it is!".

 

[Moondog Wily]

So I just tested this again with an accomplice that has near perfect hearing and certainly better hearing than mine. The difference was confirmed - so I can (hopefully) rule out madness on my part.

Using my daily driver EBMM Cutlass the difference was easily noticeable. At 100% much fuller and more lush sounding on the neck pickup than when sensitivity was set to 50%. Remember, I can only fully light the amber input light with this guitar - it's not possible to tickle the red.

Next up... Suhr Classic S on the neck pickup: There is much less noticeable change. Only a slight difference but much more subtle. Nothing that I would bother worrying about. I would be happy using 50% or 100% with this guitar, as others have said - it just doesn't matter.

So here's the thing. The Cutlass has a bufferred output. The guitar takes a battery. The Suhr has regular traditional pickups.

Another interesting point: I also used to have the same Fishman Fluence Tele pickups as @paisleywookiee and it's interesting to note that they are not quite like active pickups, but they are also not "normal" pickups and are battery powered. I don't know if the output from the Fishman's is buffered, but I guess it could be?

It could be significant that both Wookie and I aren't sending regular guitar output signals when we notice these differences.

Next time I plug in my EBMM Stingray bass, I will have to play with this as it too has the battery powered pups (but still outputs with dead battery I believe, just does not have the active EQ when battery dead if I recall correctly). Thanks for confirming paisleywookies' findings, I think y'all are on to something here ;~))

 

[Stone]

Wondering id there is any Info out there on the Cab Mic Preamps ? (this something Im always using and it makes quite a difference in the Toanz)
IE what is the Vintage, Tube, FET, Modern, Tape, etc etc based on?

Cheers
Mike

 

[FractalAudio]

Is this input gain tone difference thing on the FM9? Maybe it’s a bug, someone file it in? IIRC Fractal units’ main input pre-emphasizes the treble before ADC and de-emphasizes it in DSP in order to maximize noise performance, maybe it’s not compensating properly? It’s not supposed to change the tone.

That was the Axe-Fx I. The II and III don't use pre/de-emphasis.

 

[DrewJD82]

I didn’t even realize I was slapping the shit out of the red until @jellodog pointed it out to me months back, there’s so much variation in the pickups in my guitars I’d be driving myself nuts paying attention to it, as long as I don’t hear anything bad, I couldn’t careless where it’s at. I might have adjusted it after realizing how much I was pegging into the red, but definitely haven’t tried listening for a lacking in sound with lower output pickups.

 

[Jarick]

Some of you guys obviously never grew up loving Metallica but only owning a Strat

I definitely never ran a knock off Strat through a Metal Zone directly into an old Kustom PA system as my main rig.