Sonicake Pocket Master

[mbenigni]

Man, if the Nano Cortex didn't require a phone for everything, i'd already have one.

Well, I read the rest of the thread, and I'm over the idea that this is a Nano Cortex killer.

I've still got that Mooer Prime P2 thing I've been meaning to sell anyway. Have barely touched it. Similar functionality, but 4x the price (and you need a phone for everything.) Maybe I can trade it for a pizza LOL.

 

[Mongillo19]

Man, if the Nano Cortex didn't require a phone for everything, i'd already have one.

If you can imagine, I had one, but returned it. It's an awesome device but yeah the phone only aspect is such a turn off

 

[Deleted member 490]

Due to the need for full captures and the death of my old Windows laptop 18 months ago, I had to download free ones which is always a crapshoot

Train them on tone3000, it's free and much easier to use than the local trainer

 

[Chocol8]

Train them on tone3000, it's free and much easier to use than the local trainer

I downloaded test captures from tone3000 hoping they would be above average quality. I think I need to keep looking. As far as making my own, that isn’t happening anytime soon because I am going out of town in a couple hours. Also, since I went all in on DI captures and IR’s years ago, the only semi suitable microphones I have left are a couple beat up SM57’s and a MXL 770 condenser mic. Ugh!!!!! I REALLY don’t want to spend hundreds of dollars on a few decent mic’s so I can make full captures for a $50 toy! If I have to make my own captures I will be making some calls to see what I can borrow. Grrrrrr.

Is there a relatively easy way to combine a DI NAM file and IR into a full capture NAM file? I assume not, but that would be a nice shortcut!

 

[mbenigni]

If you can imagine, I had one, but returned it. It's an awesome device but yeah the phone only aspect is such a turn off

I think products like these are intended for "set and forget" users/ use-cases. But I'm the polar opposite, always tweaking, which keeps leading me back to the Quad Cortex.

 

[Deleted member 490]

Is there a relatively easy way to combine a DI NAM file and IR into a full capture NAM file? I assume not, but that would be a nice shortcut!

You can record the cab-less signal from your amp by using a passive DI box (that supports speaker level signals) connected between the amp out and the cab, then apply an IR to the recording and use that to train the model.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Is there a relatively easy way to combine a DI NAM file and IR into a full capture NAM file? I assume not, but that would be a nice shortcut!

Use the NAM Player. Load the NAM you want. Add an IR. Send the "trigger" file from Tone3000 through it, upload the result and download the combined NAM file. Done.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Fwiw, as that method is a sort of "resampling" process, you may experience some signal "alteration" (not necessarily degration), but hey, it's a unit for 60 bucks we're talking about. Besides, anything will be sent through a conversion process when loading things into the Pocket Master anyway, so this is possibly nothing to corksniff about at all.

 

[Chocol8]

Fwiw, as that method is a sort of "resampling" process, you may experience some signal "alteration" (not necessarily degration), but hey, it's a unit for 60 bucks we're talking. Besides, anything will be sent through a conversion process when loading things into the Pocket Master anyway, so this is possibly nothing to corksniff about at all.

Yeah, and it is a lot quicker and cheaper than buying a couple even semi-decent mic’s that I would likely only use to make a few captures for this thing.

I think Sascha’s method will be the quickest and easiest and probably something I can do on my laptop while on the road. I won’t even need an interface, and thinking about it, I could capture my Tonex captures that way as well. Not ideal, but I am thinking of the Pocket Master in terms of “good enough for practice” and not anything cork sniffery.

Making new captures with DLC86’s method might give better results and I will probably try that later as I am all setup to make DI captures with reactive loads and real cab loads. But, that’s a project to get each amp setup and dialed in, record the tones, rinse and repeat making lots of noise when I already have some DI captures.

 

[Dom Mcsweeney]

Yeah, that was my exact same experience. Apparently this is a thing with all cheap modelling devices importing/converting NAM captures these days; i have no idea why capture levels aren't being normalized.

The reason why is because it's not loading NAM models and instead a script converts it over to a different format.

The normalisation feature of NAM Models is done via the meta data contained in the NAM model itself, and is only possible if the software (or hardware) that you load your NAM models into has implemented that feature. If it does, then it will read the meta data and adjust the models loudness accordingly, if it doesn't support that feature then it won't.

 

[bikescene]

I got My Pocket Master in the mail yesterday. I played around with the levels of the unit to try to better understand it. I shared some of info through the Sonicake Pocket Master and NAM FB groups, and thought you guys might be interested.

Here’s some files I uploaded to my Google Drive:

Pocket Master NAM Test – Google Drive

drive.google.com

I made a NAM full rig of my Plexi-circuit amp through a Creamback M65, mic-ed by a Shure SM57. Input calibration of setup is as close as I could get to 11.5dBu. This was the only way I could have a baseline that I was comfortable with.

3 audio clips:

1. the NAM capture loaded up in the VST on my PC. I recorded a clean DI of my Epiphone Les Paul. On the plugin, I turned off output normalization and lowered the volume slightly.
2. The capture was imported into my Pocket Master. I added 2dB to the unit’s input. More on this later. I had to crank the patch and unit’s output. Apparently an older firmware doesn’t have the volume discrepancy, but I will have to try it first.
3. I took the first clip and applied an 8.5kHz 6dB slope low pass in ProQ3 to try to better match the high end of NAM to the PM.

I took a stab at trying to guess the hardware input levels of the device.

I used two computers to hook things up:
PC DAW 1kHz sine at -11.5dBFS -> PC Audio Interface Line Out -> Reamp Box outputting 0.774VRMS -> Pocket Master Input -> PM USB into MBP

My calibrated -11.5dBFS PC output showed up as -12.8dBFS in my MBP input. By ear, the +2dB adjustment of the PM input sounded closest to NAM plugin.

I quickly compared in Voxengo SPAN and saw that the PM version had more information in the 100-200Hz region and less in the 7kHz+ area. Hiss was also higher on the PM. This model is already a bit hissy since the amp had the big 5000pF bright cap. Good enough for headphone practice though.

I’m very happy for $50. I’m going to stick with the NAM plugin for more critical applications. I’m going to make some more full rigs in NAM to fill up the other slots. And I’m going to check out the built in amp modeling and effects some time this week.

 

[KingsXJJ]

Null test needed for science.

 

[Lysander]

Follow-up, i ended up selling mine (for a modest profit, too!) to a friend. It's a fun tool and a cool practice device, but IMHO the POD Express trounces it both in usability and sound quality.

The (hacky) NAM support might be a deal breaker for some thou.

 

[KingsXJJ]

Follow-up, i ended up selling mine (for a modest profit, too!) to a friend. It's a fun tool and a cool practice device, but IMHO the POD Express trounces it both in usability and sound quality.

The (hacky) NAM support might be a deal breaker for some thou.

While the Pocket Master is a toy at some level, I disagree on the Pod Express. My opinion of that unit is low. I feel it could have been a stand out unit with the amp and cab update and a metal enclosure. Do that and charge $249 and I’ll be in just like that.

The Pocket Master is just a show of force of what can be made and sold for $50. Other than possibly the GP-5 at $79 there not many products offering so much for so little. And the GP-5 is 1.6x on cost of the PM. 4-5X products are about to get very interesting IMO.

Push that envelope to 6X and you are at $300. The NUX Amp Academy Stomp is a harbinger of things to come. If NUX can bring a “4K MG-40” to market with credible NAM and Deep Image capability for $349 I think it’s going to be a very attractive product competing against whatever next gen L6 Stomp is released. And that product is likely 1-2 years from release and if the Stadium price points are any indication I think it’ll be at $1k minimum. More likely more.

Then we have Hotone and it’s cheaper variants like Valeton and SonicCake which benefit from trickle down techonomics. The Ampero II Stage is pretty compelling if you shop hard at snag one ~$530. If they can release a solid v2.0 firmware upgrade that improves SoundClone and expand their implementation of HD Amps and Effects, they’ll have proven solidly that they are committed to product support IMO. Which totally sets the “stage” for Ampero III which will, IMO, be a competitive and mature release of white and multiple level, parametric imaging, black box modeling used in combination to produce some incredible tone and feel at a super competitive price. With the Stadium pricing planned any truly next gen flagship products coming in around $750 represent a remarkable opportunity. I don’t think the L6 Stomp will actually hit that price point and I would expect something around $1-1.2k to be more likely. Yes, the Fractal FM3 is around $1.2k or so and sounds fantastic IMO. But it lacks any NAM or image capability being strictly white-box capable.

I genuinely believe that imaging represents as big of a disrupter and leap that IR’s brought. Using a combination of the best aspects of both white and black box modeling with some sort of “learning” or focused “AI” is something I look forward to a great deal. So anyway, that’s my thought stream dump and I’m sure it has holes in it and I could be completely wrong.

But it certainly is interesting to think about and I am excited about what might be coming. If anyone has any different or other ideas, I’d love to hear them. I’m not trying to start an argument or push a narrative or a particular company and open discussion or even just bullshitting is a great way to share perspectives. It might be heresy but I’m extremely curious how the $299 NUX Amp Academy Stomp will compare to my FM3. Even if you slightly entertain the idea… it’s exciting and would have been unthinkable or laughable not long ago. I’m not saying the FM3 sucks and isn’t great so please just don’t start.

 

[Lysander]

The Pocket Master is just a show of force of what can be made and sold for $50. Other than possibly the GP-5 at $79 there not many products offering so much for so little. And the GP-5 is 1.6x on cost of the PM. 4-5X products are about to get very interesting IMO.

Yeah, no arguments regarding price. The POD Express is very cheap... but still 3x what a Pocket Master or a GP-5 go for. Ultimately, i happen to like HX models much more than Valetone and Sonicake's.

Then we have Hotone and it’s cheaper variants like Valeton and SonicCake which benefit from trickle down techonomics. The Ampero II Stage is pretty compelling if you shop hard at snag one ~$530.

Ampero Mini's are about the same price as a POD Express these days; those are a killer deal IMHO. Both NUX and Hotone are a cut above other Chinese manufacturers these days IMHO, when it comes to raw sound quality.

 

[KingsXJJ]

Ampero Mini's are about the same price as a POD Express these days; those are a killer deal IMHO. Both NUX and Hotone are a cut above other Chinese manufacturers these days IMHO, when it comes to raw sound quality.

I’d love to see an Ampero II Mini with SoundClone!