Fractal Talk

[laxu]

I use Dyna-cabs from time to time as well as my old reliable(s). Really; the people that seem the most at home with their brand of choice's cab block update/refresh is the HX peeps. I see the most talk about those.

The QC was the first to kind of graphically build this out in a hardware box but if anything; everyone seems to still chat about sticking with their go to IRs in spite of how easy it is to use. Which is another head scratcher to the pile of why even bother with that thing.

With the QC I felt the cab selection was just not very good. There's like 10 different 4x12 V30 cabs and few options for other common staples. The UI itself was easy to use even before they revamped it.

I think Fractal and Line6 have a better sweet spot with the cabs/mics on offer. I especially like that with Fractal I can just swap the cabs and try the same mic position/model with a different cab easily.

I've never been able to settle on some staple IR to use everywhere. Different amps need different cabs/speakers to shine.

 

[TSJMajesty]

But I have to shame you for not knowing the A-E doubleclick shortcuts to go quickly to common blocks!

I actually don't like them, because, 1) I have to hit them very fast, and 2) I have to hit them very hard. If I miss on either, they won't work, so I've wasted more time overall.

 

[TSJMajesty]

Then talk about how hard it is to use after spending no time trying to learn how it works.

This 1000%!! And then we get the parrots: Fractal's too hard Fractals too hard

 

[laxu]

I actually don't like them, because, 1) I have to hit them very fast, and 2) I have to hit them very hard. If I miss on either, they won't work, so I've wasted more time overall.

I can understand that. It can take some learning to do them consistently.

When I suggested them to Fractal, my idea was using hold functions for this. While slower, there's less chance for mistaken presses. But the Fractal system doesn't seem to support hold for these so they went with double-click.

 

[TSJMajesty]

I'm having flashbacks to a time where every bar in America had at least one arcade game against the wall.

Sheeet. I used to work at a Howard Johnson's that had a Space Invaders. I'd spend my slack time during the graveyard shift playing that damn game!

 

[TSJMajesty]

was using hold functions for this.

THAT would've been great!!

 

[JiveTurkey]

This 1000%!! And then we get the parrots: Fractal's too hard Fractals too hard

Devil's advocate parrot crew, chiming in: if you haven't tried anything else; how do you know how difficult or not difficult everything else is? That's the crux for a lot of these complaints. People that have owned everything 15 times. AKA I semi-resemble that remark but just learned how to use the goddamn thing

 

[Achilles]

Howard Johnson's

I have the recipe for their blueberry toasties!

 

[laxu]

Then talk about how hard it is to use after spending no time trying to learn how it works.

I think that's just expectation compared to what other manufacturers do.

First gen Axe-Fx would be miles ahead from those "1-2 row LCD" rack products that were common for a long time.

When the Helix released, I remember thinking it felt advanced compared to the Axe-Fx 2 I had.

Now Fractal, and Helix will feel dated to use compared to a QC, TMP or even Hotone Ampero.

By the time the next gen Fractal and Helix come out, they will (hopefully) make the current UI champs feel dated too.

In 2000, Steve Krug released a book called "Don't Make Me Think!" It is about how to make websites and forms more usable. A lot of the things outlined in the book are now standard practices in web design.

He talks about having a "reservoir of goodwill" every time you enter a website. This reservoir goes down the more you have to spend time trying to find the things you need. All those cookie/advertising modals, popup windows to register for a newsletter etc reduce your goodwill until you get fed up and go somewhere else.

Same can be applied to a digital modeler if it takes too much effort, learning and knowhow to do something. The less I need to think about it, the faster I can get results from my modeler of choice.

With something like the Quad Cortex, I feel I don't have to think too much when doing most common editing tasks - it's at most a few taps and knob twists away. TMP seems similar, just slower, so probably will appeal to new users even more. QC only gets complicated when managing e.g presets and captures, or figuring out the DSP paths and footswitch assignment stuff.

With Fractal I feel for common editing tasks, I need to think about things like:

• What button do I need to press to get where I want to go next?
• Ok, this new view looks totally different from the one before. Where am I? What will the big knob change if I turn it?
• What do all these controls mean? Which ones are important? With amps in Authentic view it's straightforward, but not so much for many effects where even on the first page you have some controls you find on no pedals.

By comparison Axe-Edit avoids a lot of these issues because you can always see where you are, it's arranged in a more friendly manner, and the complication only starts to creep in when you start figuring out scenes and channels, or FC functions.

I don't feel like I need to think a whole lot using Axe-Edit, I think it's genuinely one of the best modeler computer editors.

 

[TSJMajesty]

Devil's advocate parrot crew, chiming in: if you haven't tried anything else; how do you know how difficult or not difficult everything else is?

Hmmm, because I try to only focus on the comments from people who have used multiple different brands of whatever type gear we're discussing...?

I literally used a few guys here, and at FAS, who had done so, their opinions of the topic. But I get your point.

Although...., I'm not sure why one couldn't characterize using a Fractal as fairly easy, even if they had not tried everything else out there, to make a comparison to.

I just happen to agree, that saying a piece of gear is hard to use, when said person really didn't make true effort to learn how to use it, isn't a good opinion to adopt as one's own. And I've seen that happen plenty.

 

[TSJMajesty]

I have the recipe for their blueberry toasties!

How bout the ice cream cake rolls? Remember them? As a 16 yo cook, I used to steal slices of them from the walk-in. They were SO GOOD!

 

[laxu]

The question is if it would really improve if touch UI was introduced.
Personally, I despise touch UIs for these stuff because they impose much of the same limitations that a mouse has (e.g. turning a digital knob with a mouse or on a touch screen are both horrible UX). I'd much rather have a good interface that is surrounded/accompanied by physical knobs. Like Kemper, except you know.. good looking

One reason why FracPad does not work that well is the lack of physical control. I think that's what QC and TMP do right, adjusting controls from the touchscreen itself is an option rather than the primary means of adjustment. Touchscreen is fantastic for selecting stuff.

Also, and this is highly subjective, but I'd love for the authentic/ideal page to actually look like an amp, with all the controls the amp actually has. Example, Mesa Mark amps should have the GEQ there, instead of buried in another tab (unless this has changed recently?). But I know this type of interface is highly debated. I guess it could be an option.

I can agree with that, but it's difficult to do with a small screen, and would need a re-design of Axe-Edit just to accommodate the few amps that have a graphic EQ.

Looking like an amp is IMO just fluff. If they wanted they could use e.g a different knob style and background color to give it a more "looks like this amp" visual but having things like virtual input jacks, power switches, screws, grille cloths, tolex...all that is unnecessary.

And the biggest thing for me, is that I want the amp list to be a list of amps, rather than a list of amp channels (sometimes amp channels with specific modes engaged). Then have those modes/channels be switchable in the amp settings. This is however something that's not possible on current gen AFAIK, but post on Fractal forum seems to insinuate this *might* come in a next gen, which would be awesome IMO!

Everyone can agree with that. Hopefully next gen you can choose an amp and then have access to its various channels, modes and variants, and have it all operate more like the real thing instead of having to know that you need to go set that Triple Crown input boost to emulate its built-in Tube Screamer etc, or having to pick a separate model for the Friedman C45 switch.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I just happen to agree, that saying a piece of gear is hard to use, when said person really didn't make true effort to learn how to use it, isn't a good opinion to adopt as one's own. And I've seen that happen plenty

Agreed completely. Henning has been antimodeling/profiling historically iirc? Everything in this space is a lot more complex than it gets credit for overall. I think the first gear to break through to him was the cheap stuff.

 

[Elric]

One reason why FracPad does not work that well is the lack of physical control. I think that's what QC and TMP do right, adjusting controls from the touchscreen itself is an option rather than the primary means of adjustment. Touchscreen is fantastic for selecting stuff.

FracPad has always been wonky because it is a third party product trying to do everything via MIDI, often folks are trying to do that wirelessly as well. A proprietary App with proper 2 way communication between the device and the app would be so much better. A proper mobile Axe-Edit with a touch screen would slay. Physical controls are nice but not a hard requirement, at all. IMHO.

Cortex control is awesome, f.ex. If Neural didn’t develop stuff at a snails pace, I’d say they should do a phone/pad version of it. People would go bananas for it.

 

[Achilles]

Same can be applied to a digital modeler if it takes too much effort, learning and knowhow to do something. The less I need to think about it, the faster I can get results from my modeler of choice.

There was the time when Fractal was so dominant in tones that it made the effort worth it.
Not anymore.

 

[laxu]

FracPad has always been wonky because it is a third party product trying to do everything via MIDI, often folks are trying to do that wirelessly as well. A proprietary App with proper 2 way communication between the device and the app would be so much better.

Axe-Edit itself communicates with the Axe-Fx via MIDI Sysex. So FracPad is no different.

The way most Axe-Fx functions work is that you send a MIDI Sysex with e.g the block and parameter IDs you want to change, along with the value you want to set, and a checksum of the whole thing. Then the Axe-Fx will return a MIDI Sysex message like "I set this block ID, param ID combo to this value".

The wireless MIDI with Fracpad is very flaky though, could never get it working right whereas my Luminite and CME WIDI stuff are rock solid.

 

[Elric]

Axe-Edit itself communicates with the Axe-Fx via MIDI Sysex. So FracPad is no different.

The way most Axe-Fx functions work is that you send a MIDI Sysex with e.g the block and parameter IDs you want to change, along with the value you want to set. Then the Axe-Fx will return a MIDI Sysex message like "I set this block ID, param ID combo to this value".

The wireless MIDI with Fracpad is very flaky though, could never get it working right whereas my Luminite and CME WIDI stuff are rock solid.

Yeah, but I’m assuming it has a back door/ extra knowledge FracPad is slow, unresponsive, times out, Axe-Edit is butter smooth. The dev is going off Fractal’s published spec and probably does not have access to all of the info the Fractal devs do (My guess/assumption). Anyway, regardless of root cause; the communication issues with FracPad and maybe the UI library too strike me as the real “I’m not going to be using this“ issue, at least for me. I’m not looking for physical knobs. I want mobile Axe-Edit and FracPad is not that.

 

[laxu]

There was the time when Fractal was so dominant in tones that it made the effort worth it.
Not anymore.

Absolutely. While I still think Fractal is the absolute top dog for sound quality, the competition is catching up, and a lot of devices are more than "good enough".

That makes it a bit easier for Fractal to introduce a next gen: they aren't playing catchup in sounds or features like Neural and Fender are. And they have a good template for how their system could work in the Axe-Edit software.

 

[laxu]

Yeah, but I’m assuming it has a back door/ extra knowledge FracPad is slow, unresponsive, times out, Axe-Edit is butter smooth. The dev is going off Fractal’s published spec and probably does not have access to all of the info the Fractal devs do (My guess/assumption). Anyway, regardless of root cause; the communication issues with FracPad and maybe the UI library too strike me as the real “I’m not going to be using this“ issue, at least for me. I’m not looking for physical knobs. I want mobile Axe-Edit and FracPad is not that.

Fractal doesn't publish any MIDI Sysex specs for this stuff so FracPad dev has just reverse engineered it. I have done my own tests with some major help from @NotApplicable. Any slowdown is likely to be in how things get processed at the app end. For what I tried, it would only lag if you really spam the system with value changes and then it can clog up the UI processing on your app with all the return messages to react to.

It's been years since I tried it and felt it worked pretty decently over USB on the 2017 iPad Pro I had. IMO FracPad is a great start and with official Fractal support could be shaped into an official Axe-Edit app.

 

[Elric]

Fractal doesn't publish any MIDI Sysex specs for this stuff so FracPad dev has just reverse engineered it. I have done my own tests with some major help from @NotApplicable. Any slowdown is likely to be in how things get processed at the app end. For what I tried, it would only lag if you really spam the system with value changes and then it can clog up the UI processing on your app with all the return messages to react to.

It's been years since I tried it and felt it worked pretty decently over USB on the 2017 iPad Pro I had. IMO FracPad is a great start and with official Fractal support could be shaped into an official Axe-Edit app.

I dunno. I am pretty expert w/ MIDI (i.e. have actually written a MIDI editor from scratch). Don’t deeply care about the implementation details here. Just IME, it sucks as a replacement for AE in the field and I’m fairly confident it is not pilot error.

I agree that if FAS embraced and took ownership of it, they could turn it into a proper mobile AE. Wish they would.