Fractal Talk

[TSJMajesty]

Lol. I guess we should just ignore all wish/feature requests then. It's only our money that funds everything. Adding an amp and not having to screw around with it isn't a big ask.
Having to put some amps at 0,0,10 isn't something that everyone knows.
Having never owned a Boogie it wasnt until Leon posted content that I learned the tone stack topology.

F A C T O R Y P R E S E T S

 

[dean701]

F A C T O R Y P R E S E T S

True. But I delete most to make space for my own.
As well, . Maybe I'll try the Brootalz today. I have to look up what it was based on to know where I am headed. Is it 5150 based. Is it recto.

 

[GTR37]

True. But I delete most to make space for my own.
As well, . Maybe I'll try the Brootalz today. I have to look up what it was based on to know where I am headed. Is it 5150 based. Is it recto.

from FAS brootalz

This amp was an accident. I was working on the Savage model and accidentally used the input stage from an SLO100. So it's the front end of an SLO100 with the back end of a Savage

 

[dean701]

from FAS brootalz

This amp was an accident. I was working on the Savage model and accidentally used the input stage from an SLO100. So it's the front end of an SLO100 with the back end of a Savage

lol. that makes it so clear. what the @#$% is a savage

 

[TSJMajesty]

True. But I delete most to make space for my own.
As well, . Maybe I'll try the Brootalz today. I have to look up what it was based on to know where I am headed. Is it 5150 based. Is it recto.

Well if you don't know what the amps are based on, and whether you like them or not yet, and/or how to dial them in, then deleting the factory presets before you do, is backwards. Use the factory presets to get to know them (along with reading- we all have to do it), then delete them. If/when you actually need the space, that is.

 

[dean701]

Well if you don't know what the amps are based on, and whether you like them or not yet, and/or how to dial them in, then deleting the factory presets before you do, is backwards. Use the factory presets to get to know them (along with reading- we all have to do it), then delete them. If/when you actually need the space, that is.

wow, talk about a topic snowballing. I needed the space. I have 200+ presets doled out just for Marshall and their variants. I have over a million IRs and counting and that is also beyond full. I am constantly rotating IRs to try them and if I like them, hey, a new preset. (Try Mirror Profile out, they are great) My simple ask was just to have the BMT pre-dialed and it actually doesn't warrant such a long discussion. If you don't agree, that's fine but you won't change my mind.

 

[JiveTurkey]

lol. that makes it so clear. what the @#$% is a savage

Engl Savage

 

[Elric]

Here's the story with the Friedman models:
The BE/HBE have the gain pot before the last gain stage. This is a poor design choice IMO because you're always getting distortion even if you turn the gain down. Bad gain-staging IOW. Before the Cygnus firmware I was more about "make it sound good" rather than accuracy. Hence, non-authentic pot tapers, etc. So I moved the gain pot forward a stage because it sounded better to me that way. I left the treble peaker before the last stage and just moved the gain pot forward. More like a classic Marshall.

But as our products became more and more popular the cries of "it doesn't sound exactly like my amp" became more frequent. So Cygnus became all about authenticity. There are still some remnants of Ares left over (i.e., pot tapers) that we have been correcting over time as we discover them but now the models behave like the amps and my tweaks to make things "sound better" have been removed, for better or worse.

How about Hairy FAS Eye model or something? Best of both worlds

 

[la szum]

I love the History of Music and Amplifiers, and Production and Recording Techniques. I want to know
the lineage, and all the odd modifications that led to entirely "new" amps. It's fascinating and makes
me feel connected to what I am playing (model, or the real thing)

I can also understand not everyone is like that. Some don't have the interest or can't be bothered.
That's cool, too.

I also don't think we should just wipe away history and what things actually were so as to make everything
more convenient for some people.

 

[la szum]

How about Hairy FAS Eye model or something? Best of both worlds

Friedman Pink Eye.

 

[TubeStack]

I also don't think we should just wipe away history and what things actually were so as to make everything
more convenient for some people.

Ok, but who decided @FractalAudio has to be the historian/virtual museum of tube amps through the ages? @James Freeman? Who appointed him to appoint them?

Shouldn't that be PBS' job, or the Smithsonian or something?

 

[Mongillo19]

Friedman Pink Eye.

Hairy Pink Eye (HPE) or Im not playing it

 

[SwirlyMaple]

Ok, but who decided @FractalAudio has to be the historian/virtual museum of tube amps through the ages? @James Freeman? Who appointed him to appoint them?

Shouldn't that be PBS' job, or the Smithsonian or something?

He did not choose it. The accuracy of his models chose him.

And so it was, and it was good. The birds sang. The grass grew. The TGF rejoiced and memed.

 

[la szum]

Yup, actual things that are of import and significance choose themselves. Well put, SM.

 

[ᛗᛜᛜᚺDᛜᎶ Ꮤᛨᚳᚴ]

I also don't think we should just wipe away history and what things actually were so as to make everything
more convenient for some people.

Is it right to make it "authentic" because "some people" want it to be? I mean, you are then wiping away progress, are you not? And where does the majority stand on whether it should be authentic or best tone possible with easiest path? And does majority rule or does Cliff rule (I think we know the answer to that) ;~))

The solution to this IMO is to allow users to swap in blocks they like and get rid of blocks they do not! Imagine if you will, like cabs, to be able to load up some third party amps, or pedals, etc. And to be able to delete ones you KNOW you will NEVER use! Under that scenario, everybody wins. For those who want the closest to historical models, no prob, they are out there. For those who want the simplest path to a type of tone, they will be there. For those who want to explore the future of what can be done with the concept of an amp for the future of guitar amplification, those will be there as well. The later of those 3 options is where I want to live ;~)) Personally I believe that an amplifier should do nothing more than amplify the sound level as it's name indicates. All else should be done with effects which is what all these classic (and modern) amp models are, just another effects box ;~))

 

[GTR37]

lol. that makes it so clear. what the @#$% is a savage

sorry I figured you would have probably known , Yes Engl Savage / Soldano SLO hybrid

 

[dean701]

sorry I figured you would have probably known , Yes Engl Savage / Soldano SLO hybrid

you were right, I do know of it. I just don't know how it's dialed. I get stuck on amps that I know and don't venture off very often. Forgive my ignorance. Fractal has such a wealth of amplifiers, it's mind boggling. Just tried the Severe 1 for the first time ever. Dialed it up like I would a Marshall. Sounded great. b5 m6 t7 p7. Tried Severe 2 but it started slipping away from my territory. Tried the Energyball and it's closing in on scoop thing which I would put in the Recto realm. Just the way my brain works, in case that's wrong.
I honesty don't venture from the BRITs, REVVs and 5150s that much. The Tucana is my clean. Recto and Marks for bigger gain. It's option paralysis. I have enough troubles with my IR collection. I'm definitely not a graph watcher. I let you guys all handle that and if you tell me it's accurate then at least I know. :)

 

[James Freeman]

Mark Preamps only, BMT 0,0,10.
All are very similar in response but the IIC+ has some highpass somewhere in the later stages of the preamp, I can't find where in the schematic, should be identical to the IV.
The IIC+ also a little smoother above 10kHz, also can't find in the schematic.


View attachment 15552

EDIT:
The models are killer, sound and feel great.

@FractalAudio
Where does the extra 100Hz HPF in the IIC+ preamp coming from?

 

[laxu]

The whole "authenticity" thing has a bunch of caveats for sure.

• Who determines that X example of the device is The One that best represents it? Fractal can't buy a dozen of every amp out there to find this out. Examples like the JVM JS show that there can be differences, and I think Fractal has redone the Darkglass pedal a few times because the original was busted.
• End users cannot go to Fractal's stash and verify that yes, the model is just like their reference amp. The Rectifier adventures thread shows that Fractal's model matches very closely to their reference amp, but users have raised concerns vs their own amps. Both sides are right.
• Some amps seem particularly sensitive to the cab connected, so loadboxes, different cabs and their speaker impedance curves can have a major effect - leading to cries about accuracy.
• Then there's all this micro-level discussion where people argue whether 10A vs 20A taper is right. This is mostly done by people who own an example of the real amp or are reading schematics about how it should be. Meanwhile most users are just dialing things until it sounds right to them.

I feel we are reaching a point where most users are getting an experience that matches their experience of playing real tube amps. For me we are at a "more than good enough" level where some subtle taper tweak or accuracy improvement does not move the needle, when pretty much all the firmwares Fractal has released this year have worked just great for me. Hell, I wasn't even left wanting back in the Axe-Fx 2 days as I got tones that worked for me.

To me "amp historian" aspects aren't particularly interesting unless Fractal starts adding some actually rare stuff that adds something unique to the system, rather than say Superlead or Dual Recto variants. At 300+ amp models covering over 100 unique amps, plus all the tone shaping tools at your disposal, there's really no tone that you cannot get out of it already.

 

[Orvillain]

Is it right to make it "authentic" because "some people" want it to be? I mean, you are then wiping away progress, are you not? And where does the majority stand on whether it should be authentic or best tone possible with easiest path? And does majority rule or does Cliff rule (I think we know the answer to that) ;~))

Well again.... if people don't want authenticity, why aren't they using a Pod 2.0 and just calling it a day?