mercifulfuzziness
Roadie
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- 931
Like a tonemaster?
Anybody else getting sick of modellers?
- Thread starter fiftyshadesofslay
- Start date
Like a tonemaster?
SillyOctpuss
Shredder
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- 1,998
Tonemasters aren't stereo though are they?
mercifulfuzziness
Roadie
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- 931
I don’t know. Never played one.
Sascha Franck
Rock Star
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I'm getting pretty excited about it quite often.
Regarding some of the YouTubers saying that the amp rigs are ultimately better, I think they’re probably right.
Take Tim Pierce for example. He loves the fractal stuff and says great things about it. He uses it at times in his work. Someone asked him why he doesn’t just use it all the time, and his answer was “I can still hear a difference.” I don’t doubt him. He could pick up a lot of cash and have a simpler workflow by clearing out the analog gear, if it was really 100% as good he would have done that ages ago.
Why the keyboard warriors keep trying to insist that their modeler really is just as good and these guys can’t be right is beyond me. I still love my FM9 and use it constantly now. For me it’s better. If I were an A list session guy, or wanted to be one, I’d be acquiring different gear. I want to have fun experimenting with different rig and sound ideas and have something that’s great for live work by itself or in front of an amp. The FM9 kills for that. I don’t have to convince myself that it’s just as good as $250K of the best vintage and boutique gear, it isn’t but it’s perfect for what I want to do most of the time.
D
Take Tim Pierce for example. He loves the fractal stuff and says great things about it. He uses it at times in his work. Someone asked him why he doesn’t just use it all the time, and his answer was “I can still hear a difference.” I don’t doubt him. He could pick up a lot of cash and have a simpler workflow by clearing out the analog gear, if it was really 100% as good he would have done that ages ago.
Why the keyboard warriors keep trying to insist that their modeler really is just as good and these guys can’t be right is beyond me. I still love my FM9 and use it constantly now. For me it’s better. If I were an A list session guy, or wanted to be one, I’d be acquiring different gear. I want to have fun experimenting with different rig and sound ideas and have something that’s great for live work by itself or in front of an amp. The FM9 kills for that. I don’t have to convince myself that it’s just as good as $250K of the best vintage and boutique gear, it isn’t but it’s perfect for what I want to do most of the time.
D
Frodebro
Shredder
- Messages
- 1,956
I still own and use tube amps because I have an emotional bond with them. Not because of any other reason. The people that insist that modelers aren’t good enough are letting their emotional side dominate their brain. Just be fucking honest with yourself and everybody else and acknowledge that you prefer tube amps because they are fucking cool, because they are. All this other bullshit is simply people trying to rationalize their emotional bias.
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I do agree it sounds good with the FR-10s hooked up running a clean patch. Feels good too. I enjoy it but the response and clarity is just different. Which is fine.
Mikael Dez
Groupie
- Messages
- 77
This is where I stand: I’m a dad who doesn’t make their salary off of music. Why would I spend thousands of dollars on a tube amp, and then be seriously constricted by that one tube amp that likes to be played louder than my family likes to experience, and then GAS over another amp for its different timbre. Insert: modeling and capture technology.
Sascha Franck
Rock Star
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See, while I'm a dad as well, I do actually make my salary from playing. But apart from that, there's not much difference. As I want (and have to) suit more than just a single musical context, purchasing whatever sonically excellent yet sort of limited exclusive amps is something I just can't justify. Heck, the two fully functional tube amps I still own (modified Laney LC50 and a redknob Twin (with exchanged speakers)) are in fact gathering so much dust that I fear they might in fact take damage (not exactly the best climate in the basement, either).
And while I'm not *that* restricted as you might be in terms of loudness, I could never play my amps in any serious fashion at home (don't feel like buying a loadbox at all, either). I often couldn't even play them at proper levels live.
Modeling really fixed pretty much everything for me, one of *the* biggest benefits being that I can play with the same sound anywhere, regardless whether it's at home, on travels, in the garden, and of course live. And I can customize my rig to suit each and every situation, which sometimes becomes quite a task with real amps.
That very aspect is still exciting me almost every day.
mercifulfuzziness
Roadie
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- 931
And you are not bothered by the monitors? Amp in the room etc?
Would be interesting to hear from somebody coming from tube amps
Sascha Franck
Rock Star
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No.
I should possibly mention that I had to get used to all that very, very early, as all of a sudden silent stages became a thing for the musical theatre productions I was playing back then. So I was sitting there with either my POD 1/2 (had both, and later on an XT with the shortboard) or Boss GT-5, trying to somehow get along and not be ashamed of the questionable sound.
I have as well always been recording at home, reaching back to the days of the glorious Fostex X-15 4-track recorder (that I had to buy 2nd hand because new units almost were unobtanium), along with an EMU Drumulator. I was mainly using a H&K ATS 100 top which had their (back then famous) Cream Machine tube drive and a Red Box (cabsim) built in.
All this is what got me used to playing through whatever fullrange monitors instead of a guitar cab. In addition, it also got me used to getting the best out of less than ideal equipment (modeling for a large part was really shitty back in the days).
Now, throughout all these years I have always as well been using partially rather elaborated tube amp based rigs whenever I could.
And it didn't take me long to realize that rather often the sound, while glorious under nice conditions, wouldn't be too great in many situations. A 4x12 cab isn't the right thing for a bar. A 1x12 will be a joke on a fat ass open air stage. But you had to play both on, say, one leg of a tour.
So, while my main rigs certainly were sounding a whole lot better than my DI solutions for quite some years, they also severely lacked consistency throughout different venues or different gigs. To adress that, I sometimes even took two cabs with me, in case I didn't know much about the venue's conditions.
Similar things go for the amps. As I'm playing quite some telephone band gigs as long as I can think (and I absolutely enjoy these kinda gigs), I needed to be flexible. Some of my rigs didn't provide that kind of flexibility.
So, fast forward, there I was in 2017. In all the years I had learned about the importance of the right cab simulation and how it could easily spoil the modeling experience. I also was aware of IRs since years already, been using them for recording since several years already. So I bought that little AMT Pangaea IR loader and ran my GT-10 through it for a test. That was the very moment when I defenitely knew this could be a viable way for me.
Coincidentally (I also still remember it as if it was yesterday), at the same time I had two evenings of gigs in a great sold out club, playing my favourite music (some funky/souly stuff) with my favourite musician mates and what not. So, everything was perfect. But I used my main rig, a MkIV with an elaborated pedalboard and what not. Just that there was the dreaded cab and pretty much *zero* space on stage. So I had to place it as you would place a monitoring wedge. Located next to my feet, pointing upwards. With a solid cement ceiling of just 2.10 meters height or so. Speaker beam and reflection hell. For two long gigs. Shittiest sound I ever had with that rig (which usually was glorious).
Way too long story made at least a little shorter: Next day I ordered an Amplifirebox, the day after it arrived I sold the Boogie and it's "main" 2x12 cab. Never looked back, never played a gig with a real cab again ever since (oh ok, that's not true, there's been two gigs when I had to use a HRD provided by a rental service).
What a relief!
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Rock Chalk
Roadie
- Messages
- 711
For me, it's more about what section of the forum someone is in when they want to gush about their stuff. I couldn't care less whether somebody likes one more than the other.
I would venture to say that you will find a lot more tube amp owners saying how much better their amp is compared to a modeler in the Digital & Modeling section, than you will see modeler owners gushing about their modeler in the Amp & Cab section.......
Things that make you go hmmmm......
I would venture to say that you will find a lot more tube amp owners saying how much better their amp is compared to a modeler in the Digital & Modeling section, than you will see modeler owners gushing about their modeler in the Amp & Cab section.......
Things that make you go hmmmm......
deadpool_25
Roadie
- Messages
- 634
Let's be honest. I have a very clearly defined type.
Frodebro
Shredder
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That’s because a large percentage of modeler owners also own tube amps, or have owned them in the past. The decision to embrace modeling straddles the line between the rational and emotional sides of our brains. The tube amp owners that go on and on and on about the superiority of their gear choices are running completely on the emotional side of their brains. That’s also the side that makes a person excitable and argumentative. And there is no way you can have a rational discussion with an emotionally driven person.
deadpool_25
Roadie
- Messages
- 634
Because I love them lol. Great purchase.
Did you get a newer one with the concentric volume and gain pots, or an older one without those? I love the 6L6 concentric pot version the most just because it eliminates the volume jump between the green and blue but the OG is killer too.
It's also the best power section in a head I've ever used with a modeler.
deadpool_25
Roadie
- Messages
- 634
Never tried that cab and I'm not the one to tell anyone their cab might be a problem unless it's in the course of a troubleshooting discussion.
deadpool_25
Roadie
- Messages
- 634
My journey started with tube amps but I was also an early adopter of digital with the Line6 AxSys 2 (was watching a local band in Key West a lot where the guitarist had one). Regardless, my reference for guitar is basically sitting in a room with an amp and cab.
I was originally put off by the sound coming from monitors because it's just "smaller". But I've both warmed to it in general and have also upgraded to using a sub. I definitely feel it gives me more satisfaction because I do get a bit of that thump I get from a real cabinet.
Between the HS7s with HS8 sub and the FR-12...yeah. Good enough. I love both setups.
(Also the FR-12 in the middle with a pair of PXMs on the side in a WDW configuration is fucking epic; too bad I have no room for that setup in the new place).
Shredder777
Roadie
- Messages
- 668
It is a new one shipping from MF. 50W 6L6 in white. Decided against the stealth because I heard the stealth blue was more gained out. Then I heard other people say they are virtually identical. Not worth it to spend 150 more for bias test points, and I like the white better. I have played enough high gainers to know I prefer 6L6 over EL34.
I went with new because not worth it to save 400 finding a used one that may need tubes, maintenance, whatever. If I like it as much as I think I will, I will probably be the only owner of it.
I picked this over a JVM410. For a while I really wanted a JVM, but a few red flags. 1) Its got great high gain lead channel, but more background noise than the 5150. 2) Only one presence knob for a 4-channel amp, how versatile is it, really? Having a shared presence is good, but for a 4 channel amp, I feel it would be limiting. I would dial in an "ultimate" tone on one channel, then when trying to work another channel, I would move the presence and have to start over. I think three channels with a presence, two channels with shared EQ is a good baseline and easy to set up. I love that it has midi and 1 2 3 switching.
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Frodebro
Shredder
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- 1,956
That’s the ultimate goal, innit, those ‘lifetime amps’? I’m there with my Mark V. Bought it brand new in 2009, the serial number is in the mid 300s.
It’s definitely impossible that long time top session guys like Buk and Tim Pierce can hear and discern things that you can’t. What do they know…
D
