Anyone else getting sick of GAS?

[mercifulfuzziness]

The only problem with Fender is getting lucky with finding the guitar with the right specs and color you love. They replace them year on year where your "perfect" specs might be only available on a color you hate, or the color you love comes with the wrong neck profile for you.

My Strat is a gold color 1996 G&L Legacy, so still a Leo Fender design. It's had its bridge replaced and is well overdue for a fret leveling. No complaints about it really.

But there's so many Teles and Strats out there that I don't see a huge need to go for custom shop stuff. To me custom shop grade guitars are when you want something highly specific that is not easy to get. These are my Skervesen Shoggie 8-string and my Kiesel Aries AM7, both from a time when extended range multiscale guitars, especially headless ones, weren't that common so your options were limited.

The biggest argument for Fender on stock might be the resell value? Even the Mexican Fender I have here I can sell for around 400 euro. Which is pretty nice.

 

[laxu]

The biggest argument for Fender on stock might be the resell value? Even the Mexican Fender I have here I can sell for around 400 euro. Which is pretty nice.

That's certainly a factor as well. On the flipside, there's a lot of them out there so unless it's an unusual color it might just get lost in a sea of Fenders.

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

That's certainly a factor as well. On the flipside, there's a lot of them out there so unless it's an unusual color it might just get lost in a sea of Fenders.

Fender is maybe also a safe bet?

For most beginners, late beginners .. maybe intermediates... Fender is the known brand "so it must be good" vs... Sorry.. what is that G&L you are talking about?

"Just pick what feels right" is difficult when you don't know what to feel.

Uncle Larry had a good example of picking a pool stick. If you like playing pool in the weekend, would you even notice the difference with a 10.000 dollar pool stick?

And to bring it back into guitar world. If you give me a custom shop all I can say afterwards: yeah, that felt pretty nice. But I didn't really understand the nuances compared to my mexican Fender. I would prob. say.. yeah really nice neck. I love the relic stuff. But I would also be emersed by the whole Fender history and marketing.

But it;s hard to compete with a brand with a strong name and a high price, because automatically it's asumed it must be way better than the Kauffmann.

 

[laxu]

Fender is maybe also a safe bet?

For most beginners, late beginners .. maybe intermediates... Fender is the known brand "so it must be good" vs... Sorry.. what is that G&L you are talking about?

G&L is the brand Leo Fender started after leaving Fender. The guitars are very similar, but have a nicer bridge design than what Fender used back in the day, as well as treble/bass cut knobs instead of dual tone knobs.

Fender is a very safe bet so if you find something you like, just get that. The only Fender I own is an American Original 60's Jazzmaster that is very nice.

"Just pick what feels right" is difficult when you don't know what to feel.

Uncle Larry had a good example of picking a pool stick. If you like playing pool in the weekend, would you even notice the difference with a 10.000 dollar pool stick?

And to bring it back into guitar world. If you give me a custom shop all I can say afterwards: yeah, that felt pretty nice. But I didn't really understand the nuances compared to my mexican Fender.

But it;s hard to compete with a brand with a strong name and a high price, because automatically it's asumed it must be way better than the Kauffmann.

How a guitar feels is highly personal, and yes it takes some time to figure out what you like and don't like.

I remember when I was shopping for a Jazzmaster, I tried literally every Fender model the store had...hoping I'd find something that I liked just as much as the somewhat expensive AO 60s model. Ultimately that one was the one I got because it had a neck profile I liked best, I preferred its pickups and the Ocean Turquoise color is always great.

Also don't sell your Mexican Fender short. Maybe that's the guitar that is just right for you. I'm the first to say that boutique guitars are a luxury that I'm lucky to afford, rather than something that anyone needs.

You know what guitar I was playing all through the holidays when visiting my parents? An old Fenix LP copy, made in South Korea in 1990. I bought that guitar dirt cheap in the 2000s, upgraded its pickups and electronics, leveled its frets and set it up to my liking. It sounds and feels great to play.

 

[Antipodes]

Leo Fender had a 10 year non-compete clause in his deal with CBS for the sale of Fender. When that expired, he founded Musicman which made amps and instruments etc and ran that for some years with considerable success. He then sold that company also - Ernie Ball owns that brand now.

G&L was his third bite at the cherry. His effect on the guitar world is incalculable and he didn't even play guitar and neither did Jim Marshall.

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

G&L is the brand Leo Fender started after leaving Fender. The guitars are very similar, but have a nicer bridge design than what Fender used back in the day, as well as treble/bass cut knobs instead of dual tone knobs.

Fender is a very safe bet so if you find something you like, just get that. The only Fender I own is an American Original 60's Jazzmaster that is very nice.


How a guitar feels is highly personal, and yes it takes some time to figure out what you like and don't like.

I remember when I was shopping for a Jazzmaster, I tried literally every Fender model the store had...hoping I'd find something that I liked just as much as the somewhat expensive AO 60s model. Ultimately that one was the one I got because it had a neck profile I liked best, I preferred its pickups and the Ocean Turquoise color is always great.

Also don't sell your Mexican Fender short. Maybe that's the guitar that is just right for you. I'm the first to say that boutique guitars are a luxury that I'm lucky to afford, rather than something that anyone needs.

You know what guitar I was playing all through the holidays when visiting my parents? An old Fenix LP copy, made in South Korea in 1990. I bought that guitar dirt cheap in the 2000s, upgraded its pickups and electronics, leveled its frets and set it up to my liking. It sounds and feels great to play.

It seems like a want vs need, but also.. what are you used to?

My first cas was a 300.000km mitsubishu carisma. Totally beat up and I loved it. Our latest car now is a Volvo V90 with all options. Stepping back to the Carisma... would be something to get used to. But it would not make me a worse driver.

Children are so lovely. My daughter stepped into an old car this week and she said "This car have floor massage!!!" ..(the car was vibrating.. something she never experienced in our cars haha)

 

[Jarick]

Fender is maybe also a safe bet?

For most beginners, late beginners .. maybe intermediates... Fender is the known brand "so it must be good" vs... Sorry.. what is that G&L you are talking about?

"Just pick what feels right" is difficult when you don't know what to feel.

Uncle Larry had a good example of picking a pool stick. If you like playing pool in the weekend, would you even notice the difference with a 10.000 dollar pool stick?

And to bring it back into guitar world. If you give me a custom shop all I can say afterwards: yeah, that felt pretty nice. But I didn't really understand the nuances compared to my mexican Fender. I would prob. say.. yeah really nice neck. I love the relic stuff. But I would also be emersed by the whole Fender history and marketing.

But it;s hard to compete with a brand with a strong name and a high price, because automatically it's asumed it must be way better than the Kauffmann.

I personally think you can't go wrong with a Fender. Worst case scenario you don't like the guitar but it's really easy to re-sell because it's a Fender.

Personally I would grab a Player series Strat, either new on sale or mint used, then take it to a good luthier and have a full setup with fret leveling and smoothing. They are solid guitars with good parts, but the finishing on them off the rack (especially the frets) is always subpar. An $800 guitar with a $200 setup will rival a $2000 guitar in terms of how easy and fun it is to play.

Plus if you decide you want to change it over time, the Player will take new parts easily. I believe they have the same drilling as the USA models nowadays, so you can upgrade the tremolo, or swap in locking tuners, or slotted style tuners, or get a different pickguard with new pickups and drop that in, etc.

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

I personally think you can't go wrong with a Fender. Worst case scenario you don't like the guitar but it's really easy to re-sell because it's a Fender.

Personally I would grab a Player series Strat, either new on sale or mint used, then take it to a good luthier and have a full setup with fret leveling and smoothing. They are solid guitars with good parts, but the finishing on them off the rack (especially the frets) is always subpar. An $800 guitar with a $200 setup will rival a $2000 guitar in terms of how easy and fun it is to play.

Plus if you decide you want to change it over time, the Player will take new parts easily. I believe they have the same drilling as the USA models nowadays, so you can upgrade the tremolo, or swap in locking tuners, or slotted style tuners, or get a different pickguard with new pickups and drop that in, etc.

:) Agreed. It's the one I have. Brought to a good tech (mouth to mouth reference in town) and made it indeed way better. I asked him I should swap the pick ups and he told me that it would not make it that much better.

Interesting you mention the 2000 number, because that's what I am looking at spending for a new guitar. From what ive heard and understood is that if you go non-Fender, the 2000 range.. will get you to custom shop teritory. Not 100%, maybe, but close to it.

Now that would make me GAS and not get sick of it. I don't want to spend a 4000-5000 this year. But upgrading to something 2000-ish and get a wayyyyy better guitar than I have now: Yes please!

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

:) Agreed. It's the one I have. Brought to a good tech (mouth to mouth reference in town) and made it indeed way better. I asked him I should swap the pick ups and he told me that it would not make it that much better.

Interesting you mention the 2000 number, because that's what I am looking at spending for a new guitar. From what ive heard and understood is that if you go non-Fender, the 2000 range.. will get you to custom shop teritory. Not 100%, maybe, but close to it.

Now that would make me GAS and not get sick of it. I don't want to spend a 4000-5000 this year. But upgrading to something 2000-ish and get a wayyyyy better guitar than I have now: Yes please!

A price tag doesn’t necessarily guarantee a good instrument. I played a $20k Gilchrest mandolin at a jam once. The owner must have seen how giddy I was because as he handed it to me he said “don’t get too excited. This one’s a bit of a dud.” He wasn’t lying. I’ve played some great Fender Custom Shop guitars and others that looked beautiful but sounded/felt like a very average strat.

I love my K-Line tele, but have guided a few folks that have reached out to me about it away from the stock K-Line guitars because it didn’t sound like they would get along with the smaller frets, etc.

 

[Jarick]

:) Agreed. It's the one I have. Brought to a good tech (mouth to mouth reference in town) and made it indeed way better. I asked him I should swap the pick ups and he told me that it would not make it that much better.

Interesting you mention the 2000 number, because that's what I am looking at spending for a new guitar. From what ive heard and understood is that if you go non-Fender, the 2000 range.. will get you to custom shop teritory. Not 100%, maybe, but close to it.

Now that would make me GAS and not get sick of it. I don't want to spend a 4000-5000 this year. But upgrading to something 2000-ish and get a wayyyyy better guitar than I have now: Yes please!

Honestly I think at $2000 the non-Fenders I would be wary of. The really good builders are likely going to be $3000 and up, so you're looking more at smaller builders, and that can be a nightmare.

20 years ago when I was still a drummer, I wanted a custom drum kit. I didn't want to drop $2500+ on a high end kit at the time so shopped around and found a builder who would finish and build the kit if I sourced the parts. I think at the end of the day I was going to spend about $1500 on the build, and he was a reputable builder.

So I order all the parts and give him the money, and things are moving along. He sends pictures of the drums in progress and they look good! But a few weeks later he says the humidity ruined the finish, and they need to be redone. Then a few weeks later he says they can't be refinished and he needs to order new wood.

Several more weeks go by, and it's a list of delays...family is sick, tools are broken, etc. Finally he finishes them and ships them out. I get them and they are not what I was hoping for...wrong color, dull finish instead of glossy, not the best overall. I tune them up and they don't sound good. Not the big sound in my head but they were just blah.

I was really heartbroken and disappointed after all that. I spent close to $2000 and waited an extra six months on top of spending a year designing the kit and sourcing the parts. I don't even think the builder tried to scam me or anything, I think he legit ran into a lot of issues and ended up building something subpar. Nobody was happy.

A year goes by and they just aren't working at all, so I sell them. Of course nobody wants to buy them because it's an "off brand" (not a custom build). I think I sold them for like $700 plus shipping. Just a complete waste of money.

Then I ended up buying a mid-level drumset from a big brand that was on clearance. I think it was about a $1200 kit I got for $800. It was amazing! It sounded massive, way better than expected. The finish was flawless. It tuned up perfectly. And a few years later when I got out of drumming for good, I sold it for what I paid originally.

Moral of the story for me - if you want a high end custom instrument, get it from a highly reputable builder whose instruments have a solid track record on the used market. If you want a high quality instrument but don't want to spend the money, get a mid level instrument from a big brand on sale or lightly used.

Back to guitars, the $2000 mark is kind of weird nowadays. Five years ago you could get a ton of really high quality USA guitars for $2k. Now with inflation that's closer to $2500-3000. I was in the same boat and got an Ibanez AZ2204 which is a high quality made in Japan guitar for under $2k, new with a blemish. G&L is in that range too.

One guitar I would look at for $2k if you like vintage Fenders is K-Line. New Springfields are $3k but used ones could be available for $2k.

Here's my MIJ Ibanez. Again, stainless steel frets, high end fret finishing, locking tuners, high quality Gotoh bridge with brass block, came stock with Seymour Duncans, I put in Suhr pickups. Also includes a high quality hardshell case.

 

[Stone]

As you all well know me anything but Fender, especially MiM

 

[laxu]

Moral of the story for me - if you want a high end custom instrument, get it from a highly reputable builder whose instruments have a solid track record on the used market. If you want a high quality instrument but don't want to spend the money, get a mid level instrument from a big brand on sale or lightly used.

I'd add that if you want a high end custom guitar, be prepared that you will never get the money back if you want to sell it for any reason. The pricier the guitar, the more it depreciates on the used market. So ideally you would buy for keeps.

The 2nd thing is doing your research. In 2023 around Black Friday, I was looking for new Tele pickups and one manufacturer had a BF sale going on. I was close to ordering his pickups until I read reports of the maker being hard to reach and your pickups just arrive whenever. Ordered from Cavalier Pickups instead and got prompt answers and the pickups were here in Finland pretty quickly. I'd avoid any maker with a reputation of ghosting you after you have ordered, or being difficult to work with.

The 3rd thing is knowing what you want. It's easy to make a "slap everything on the menu on it" selection because it's available, and end up with a guitar that is too much of a good thing.

Back when I ordered my Kiesel, they didn't have a builder so it was literally picking from a form for options and sending it via email to one of their reps. I sent them a Photoshopped picture of what I was looking to get, and I think Kiesel nailed it.

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

Honestly I think at $2000 the non-Fenders I would be wary of. The really good builders are likely going to be $3000 and up, so you're looking more at smaller builders, and that can be a nightmare.

20 years ago when I was still a drummer, I wanted a custom drum kit. I didn't want to drop $2500+ on a high end kit at the time so shopped around and found a builder who would finish and build the kit if I sourced the parts. I think at the end of the day I was going to spend about $1500 on the build, and he was a reputable builder.

So I order all the parts and give him the money, and things are moving along. He sends pictures of the drums in progress and they look good! But a few weeks later he says the humidity ruined the finish, and they need to be redone. Then a few weeks later he says they can't be refinished and he needs to order new wood.

Several more weeks go by, and it's a list of delays...family is sick, tools are broken, etc. Finally he finishes them and ships them out. I get them and they are not what I was hoping for...wrong color, dull finish instead of glossy, not the best overall. I tune them up and they don't sound good. Not the big sound in my head but they were just blah.

I was really heartbroken and disappointed after all that. I spent close to $2000 and waited an extra six months on top of spending a year designing the kit and sourcing the parts. I don't even think the builder tried to scam me or anything, I think he legit ran into a lot of issues and ended up building something subpar. Nobody was happy.

A year goes by and they just aren't working at all, so I sell them. Of course nobody wants to buy them because it's an "off brand" (not a custom build). I think I sold them for like $700 plus shipping. Just a complete waste of money.

Then I ended up buying a mid-level drumset from a big brand that was on clearance. I think it was about a $1200 kit I got for $800. It was amazing! It sounded massive, way better than expected. The finish was flawless. It tuned up perfectly. And a few years later when I got out of drumming for good, I sold it for what I paid originally.

Moral of the story for me - if you want a high end custom instrument, get it from a highly reputable builder whose instruments have a solid track record on the used market. If you want a high quality instrument but don't want to spend the money, get a mid level instrument from a big brand on sale or lightly used.

Back to guitars, the $2000 mark is kind of weird nowadays. Five years ago you could get a ton of really high quality USA guitars for $2k. Now with inflation that's closer to $2500-3000. I was in the same boat and got an Ibanez AZ2204 which is a high quality made in Japan guitar for under $2k, new with a blemish. G&L is in that range too.

One guitar I would look at for $2k if you like vintage Fenders is K-Line. New Springfields are $3k but used ones could be available for $2k.

Here's my MIJ Ibanez. Again, stainless steel frets, high end fret finishing, locking tuners, high quality Gotoh bridge with brass block, came stock with Seymour Duncans, I put in Suhr pickups. Also includes a high quality hardshell case.

View attachment 35520

Nice one!

Check out this website if you want some interesting info about Del-tone. It's an European brand: https://del-tone.com/s-style/

This how they built their guitars: https://del-tone.com/how_we_build_our_guitars/

These are the options: https://del-tone.com/customisation-options/

All in all.. going balls out crazy, you would indeed end up between 2500-3000. You know your stuff man.

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

Nice one!

Check out this website if you want some interesting info about Del-tone. It's an European brand: https://del-tone.com/s-style/

This how they built their guitars: https://del-tone.com/how_we_build_our_guitars/

These are the options: https://del-tone.com/customisation-options/

All in all.. going balls out crazy, you would indeed end up between 2500-3000. You know your stuff man.

I would get a 60s Stratocaster, sunburst. The relic either medium or heavy. Simple maple neck, not sure what pickguard... and probably the 60s pick ups.

 

[Jarick]

Nice one!

Check out this website if you want some interesting info about Del-tone. It's an European brand: https://del-tone.com/s-style/

This how they built their guitars: https://del-tone.com/how_we_build_our_guitars/

These are the options: https://del-tone.com/customisation-options/

All in all.. going balls out crazy, you would indeed end up between 2500-3000. You know your stuff man.

I don't know anything about Del Tone, but I don't see a single used guitar that was sold on Reverb. So I would say if you get that guitar, be prepared for the resale value to be $600-800 as it's not a known brand.

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

 

[timbuck3]

Leo Fender had a 10 year non-compete clause in his deal with CBS for the sale of Fender. When that expired, he founded Musicman which made amps and instruments etc and ran that for some years with considerable success. He then sold that company also - Ernie Ball owns that brand now.

G&L was his third bite at the cherry. His effect on the guitar world is incalculable and he didn't even play guitar and neither did Jim Marshall.

Interesting g&l and music man are my fav guitars i have. 3rd is vox and then a few tele esquires and broadcasters i have. Then prs sfter that

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

I am a bit of a sucker for the Fender headstock.

Same with Gibson. I don’t own one … but would probably not get a Epiphone.

It’s stupid. But true.

 

[deadpool_25]

Tellin ya...go to Warmoth's site and do a custom build. Don't need to buy it, just build and price it out. It's fun lol

 

[Jarick]

Tellin ya...go to Warmoth's site and do a custom build. Don't need to buy it, just build and price it out. It's fun lol

I have been doing Warmoth fantasy builds for over 25 years. Someday, maybe, I'll actually build one.