Anybody else getting sick of modellers?

[Sedaxel]

Today I've tried the Nano Córtex in the studio. Not a rehearsal, nor a gig, but still... Good volume jamming with my buddy. He playing through a Triaxis. Me with the NC through the return of a Boogie Studio22+. I used several preamp captures, of a Mark II, Triaxis and the Studio22+ itself.

It sounded glorious. From the first strumming. No tweaking at all. I just wasn't able to distinguish it from the real amp. And pumping up the volume was just perfect too. And the transpose... Wow... Awesome.

I'm a modeller lover... But each day I'm more "IR+"FRFR"" hater instead. I think it sounds perfect for the audience, sure. But for moderate to high volume on stage, the feeling is just way better with a real cab (doesn't matter if it's a modeller or a real amp what you're amplifying through it).

 

[Desertdweller]

I'm a modeller lover... But each day I'm more "IR+""FRFR""" hater instead. I think it sounds perfect for the audience, sure. But for moderate to high volume on stage, the feeling is just way better with a real cab (doesn't matter if it's a modeller or a real amp what you're amplifying through it).

Digital preamps into tube power amps is such a great way to go. I always considered myself a bit ahead of the curve on that one as I was playing Rocktron preamps into Mesa power amps back in the late 90s before modeling took off. Bands need to jam and feed off each other, and pushing air with real speakers and real drums is the best.

 

[Sedaxel]

Digital preamps into tube power amps is such a great way to go. I always considered myself a bit ahead of the curve on that one as I was playing Rocktron preamps into Mesa power amps back in the late 90s before modeling took off. Bands need to jam and feed off each other, and pushing air with real speakers and real drums is the best.

Now I have to figure out how the same captures sound with my 50W SS Fender, with a Celestion midnight. At home it's glorious too... Let's see how it delivers a good volumes.

 

[fiftyshadesofslay]

Played last night with the Dual Rectifier again, sounded absolutely massive. Headline band used Marshall’s, sounded beefy too.

Interestingly the first band turned up with a couple of Kemper stages, nice easy setup for them.

And you know what? Sounded absolutely shite. More evidence for the prosecution I reckon.

 

[James Freeman]

So how does a sound guy typically takes your signal if you brought amp+cab to a show?
One SM57 on the cab?
What's the current practice in this day and age?

 

[Orvillain]

So how does a sound guy typically takes your signal if you brought amp+cab to a show?
One SM57 on the cab?
What's the current practice in this day and age?

If they're super experienced, they'll drape the 57 over the top of the amp using the mic cable, and have the 57 pointing directly at the floor. Everyone knows that is how you get the true grontklies of GUITTTARRR TOOOAAAANNNN.

 

[the swede]

So how does a sound guy typically takes your signal if you brought amp+cab to a show?
One SM57 on the cab?
What's the current practice in this day and age?

I think there’s no real “standard” these days. Every concert I’ve been to the last few years have been different regarding tech, there’s just so much variation in tech and ways of doing it. But “standard” old school ways still works.

This band tours their own stuff (including sound guy), except the amps and drums which are rented for each continent. (Kinda smart to choose those amps from the start 24 years ago). Simple setup for this band, but it works. In this particular case I did notice that the genre specific intricacies challenge the venue size. Drums and orchestra would overpower the speakers sometimes. Otherwise awesome, massive sound.

 

[Orvillain]

I think there’s no real “standard” these days. Every concert I’ve been to the last few years have been different regarding tech, there’s just so much variation in tech and ways of doing it. But “standard” old school ways still works.

This band tours their own stuff (including sound guy), except the amps and drums which are rented for each continent. (Kinda smart to choose those amps from the start 24 years ago). Simple setup for this band, but it works. In this particular case I did notice that the genre specific intricacies challenge the venue size. Drums and orchestra would overpower the speakers sometimes. Otherwise awesome, massive sound.
View attachment 32203View attachment 32204

ha!!

I saw Mono the other night here in London. Fucking great band. I knew it was Mono before even seeing the second pic, coz the stage setup was exactly the same!

 

[the swede]

ha!!

I saw Mono the other night here in London. Fucking great band. I knew it was Mono before even seeing the second pic, coz the stage setup was exactly the same!

View attachment 32205

Me going to a MONO concert

 

[fiftyshadesofslay]

So how does a sound guy typically takes your signal if you brought amp+cab to a show?
One SM57 on the cab?
What's the current practice in this day and age?

The last few gigs I’ve done with an amp the engineer has either used an SM57 or E906 on one of the speakers.

If I’m running the sound then I’ll just use a 57 too.

 

[SillyOctpuss]

I take my own E906 and a mic stand because I got sick of the scenario @Orvillain described above. Depressingly common in some places here.

 

[Jarick]

I played a good chunk of time last night running my QC into the return of my Orange Rocker 15 and 1x12 cab. Sounded awesome.

Then flipped over to the Fractal into studio monitors and it sounded like complete ass. Just tubby, boxy, lifeless compared to the speaker cab.

Now most of the time I like guitars through monitors just fine but I still think 95% of it is running through cabs vs direct and not the amp itself.

 

[Orvillain]

 

[Mongillo19]

I played a good chunk of time last night running my QC into the return of my Orange Rocker 15 and 1x12 cab. Sounded awesome.

Then flipped over to the Fractal into studio monitors and it sounded like complete ass. Just tubby, boxy, lifeless compared to the speaker cab.

Now most of the time I like guitars through monitors just fine but I still think 95% of it is running through cabs vs direct and not the amp itself.

What monitors are you using?

 

[Mongillo19]

So should this be is anyone sick of monitors?

 

[the swede]

So should this be is anyone sick of monitors?

Yes maybe…. I dont know, maybe I’m weird… but I never really liked guitar through studio monitors. I much prefer good headphones. Closed and open. The thing is, really good awesome headphones translate much better than similarly priced “home studio” monitors. I just need the touch of a room reverb.

Unless one climbs up over 8” and a lot of money there’s just no point imho. Near field under 7” is what it is and it’s optimal listening point is very close to the sound of headphones, except your playing the room now (which sucks unless we move away from nearfield and look at larger mid/far solutions… aaaaand then were at the point and volume were a real cab sounds better anyway. So while I would like a professionally treated room with awesome monitors, it’s just not justifiable for my humble guitar playing 1-3 hours in a week.

Meh… idk.. budget/studio/monitors are fine, but the lack of air moving is sooooooo boring. So I blast my head with headphones

 

[laxu]

So should this be is anyone sick of monitors?

I'd say kinda. It's never going to be the same sound as hearing a guitar cab in a room with most of its highs lopped off, booming at probably twice the volume at your trousers vs stereo speakers of varying quality directly in your face. The benefit is that the studio monitors will sound good with up to 10 dB less volume though.

Line6 is not wrong when they stress the importance of the playback system.

For years, I used an Axe-Fx 2 with the Atomic FR 1x12 which is a 50W "neutral" tube poweramp + tweeter + 1x12 woofer so you can run cab sims, and never had any complaints about it because it was still closer to a traditional guitar cab. I ran the tweeter at maybe about 3/10 setting so it wasn't even in use much.

I am not a fan of headphones for guitar uses. You lose the interaction between guitar and speakers for one, but I can also plug in any of the headphones I own and they will tend to sound widly different. Some are downright wrong for guitar tones where no amount of EQ or changing cab sims will be satisfying.

 

[GTR37]

Both are useful
I posted this in another thread
Recently went and saw
The Warning , Halestorm Evanescence.
Halestorm and Evanescence used amps
The best sound of the night was Danny from the Warning it was a Kemper stage into orange power amp
And second out direct to FOH

 

[Jarick]

What monitors are you using?

Been flipping between Genelec 8020's (nice midrange but kind of boxy sounding and missing low end) and Yamaha HS8's (too big for my space, too much low end, lacking midrange clarity).

I ordered a new set of monitors, the iLoud Precision 5, which should fit somewhere in between. Here's a good review from @BigHairyGuitars where they do a pretty decent job compared to a pair of $10k ATC's:



For me that's going to be the last run at running direct. If that doesn't play out, I'm going to just get a second 1x12 cab and a stereo power amp and run like that.

Just comparing right now the Yamahas and the power amp/cab, the Yamahas have tons of low end and scooped mids regardless of the IR, and the power amp/cab has way more midrange and warmth.

 

[Sedaxel]

I take my own E906 and a mic stand because I got sick of the scenario @Orvillain described above. Depressingly common in some places here.

I usually hang my own e906 (or my superlux pra628... Ehem...) directly with the cable. Couldn't be more comfortable.

Actually, I thought in maybe adding an IR loader to avoid bringing the mic... But I realized that it's more comfortable the mic solution (no power required, small, light...).