Anybody else getting sick of modellers?

[GuitarBilly74]

But you cannot compare an amp in the room vs the sound of a miced amp through an ""FRFR""
Now if you take something like the Axe FX turn off the power amp run it through a Mesa 2:90 and a Mesa 412 I suspect you would find the results much more favourable

Sure but a Mesa 2:90 has more tubes than most heads. Heavy as balls too. That's a full tube rig, regardless of what you're using in front of it.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Couldn’t hear the QC. Amp sounded good

Same issue as ever so often. You can't win the fight IEM (or plain stage monitoring) vs. amps. Or maybe you could, but it'd be an ugly victory.
Which is why I bring my own wedge (with just the guitar running through it) for all gigs that aren't strictly silent stage and/or IEM gigs.
In addition, it obviously took me some time to getting used to certain things and prepare my "new way of dealing with things" accordingly.
By now I'm sure I will never return to standard amps and cabs. I will up my monitoring game, though, at least for the somewhat bigger and louder jobs.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

FRFRs are amps though.
They have an input stage, power section and speaker = amp. A modeler into a ""FRFR"" is a multifx pedal into an amp.

Plugging a guitar into a DOD distortion pedal and feeding it into dad’s hifi was also plugging into an amp…

 

[Sascha Franck]

Now if you take something like the Axe FX turn off the power amp run it through a Mesa 2:90 and a Mesa 412 I suspect you would find the results much more favourable

Not even apples and oranges anymore. If there was some research in terms of bigger FR monitors (right now, the only FR 4x12 I know of is that Laney thing), things might look quite different.
In fact, they already look quite different in case you're using, say, two 12" wedges placed similarily as you would place an amp (which I was able to do on a handful of gigs). Make that decent wedges with enough physical strength to not start shaking around when you're hitting them harder with some power chord riffs and there's some fun to be had.

 

[likitlikeyoulikeit]

Plugging a guitar into a DOD distortion pedal and feeding it into dad’s hifi was also plugging into an amp…

This is way more true than most realize.

Some of the best guitar amps in history, just dynakit based amps.......

Hiwatt
West

All hi fi based.

 

[spawnofthesith]

But you cannot compare an amp in the room vs the sound of a miced amp through an ""FRFR""
Now if you take something like the Axe FX turn off the power amp run it through a Mesa 2:90 and a Mesa 412 I suspect you would find the results much more favourable

Well yeah, the most enjoyable results I’ve had from a modeller have by far been running through a tube power section and a cab…

Sounds great. But even then I notice certain things that I don’t like quite as much as a tube pre…

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

This is way more true than most realize.

Some of the best guitar amps in history, just dynakit based amps.......

Hiwatt
West

All hi fi based.

Panasonic?

 

[GuitarBilly74]

Plugging a guitar into a DOD distortion pedal and feeding it into dad’s hifi was also plugging into an amp…

I agree!

Ampless is DI, if you're carrying a powered speaker, you're carrying a combo amp, it's just voiced differently.

 

[likitlikeyoulikeit]

Panasonic?

I mean if you think about it. A "FRFR" is just a PA speaker.....which would work with a home stereo. It really wouldn't be much different than running into monitors. Add a preamp/model bam amp.

Jerry Garcia would run a McIntosh and JBL..... that's hi fi AF.

 

[Warmart]

Been flipping between Genelec 8020's (nice midrange but kind of boxy sounding and missing low end) and Yamaha HS8's (too big for my space, too much low end, lacking midrange clarity).

I ordered a new set of monitors, the iLoud Precision 5, which should fit somewhere in between. Here's a good review from @BigHairyGuitars where they do a pretty decent job compared to a pair of $10k ATC's:



For me that's going to be the last run at running direct. If that doesn't play out, I'm going to just get a second 1x12 cab and a stereo power amp and run like that.

Just comparing right now the Yamahas and the power amp/cab, the Yamahas have tons of low end and scooped mids regardless of the IR, and the power amp/cab has way more midrange and warmth.

Definitely interested in your thoughts on these, although I do loathe IKM - at least I wouldn't need software support with these, lmao.

I'm using PreSonus Eris E5 XT's with a single 9" sub. Average house size bedroom, so maybe dropping a little more coin into monitors is better than the poweramp/cab idea I keep having.

 

[GuitarBilly74]

I mean if you think about it. A ""FRFR"" is just a PA speaker.....which would work with a home stereo. It really wouldn't be much different than running into monitors. Add a preamp/model bam amp.

Jerry Garcia would run a McIntosh and JBL..... that's hi fi AF.

FRFRs are more than just a PA speaker. They have a preamp, that's where the tone controls, line/instrument level, DSP etc are. They also have a power section and a speaker. They're effectively a full fledged amplifier. They're just voiced full range instead of being voiced specifically for guitar.

Unless you're talking about a passive monitor. That's just a PA speaker, but you'd need at least a power amp to make that work with a modeler and there we go again.

 

[likitlikeyoulikeit]

FRFRs are more than a PA speaker. They have a preamp, that's where the tone controls, line/instrument level, DSP etc are. They also have a power section and a speaker. They're effectively a full fledged amplifier. They're just voiced full range instead of being voiced specifically for guitar.

I know. I was oversimplifying for simplicity sake...

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

FRFRs are more than a PA speaker. They have a preamp, that's where the tone controls, line/instrument level, DSP etc are. They also have a power section and a speaker. They're effectively a full fledged amplifier. They're just voiced full range instead of being voiced specifically for guitar.

??? Have you looked at a PA speaker lately?

 

[likitlikeyoulikeit]

It's all the same flipping deal ...."FRFR"....PA......home stereo....it's all the same thing.

So yes....you can plug into an integrated amplifier receiver, with a pre amp.....or a modeler....and have virtually the same experience across all of them with a small degree of variations.

Kind of don't understand the misunderstanding

 

[GuitarBilly74]

??? Have you looked at a PA speaker lately?

Yes, I have QSCs K10.2s here for my PA. They don't require external power amps because that's what they are: amps with speakers aka combos. They're just not guiitar specific.
I use a mixer with them because I need multiple channels but I could run my keys or even my wife's mic straight into them and get full sound. They're fully self-contained.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Yes, I have QSCs K10.2s here for my PA. They don't require external power amps because that's what they are: amps with speakers aka combos. They're just not guiitar specific.
I use a mixer with them because I need multiple channels but I could run my keys or even my wife's mic straight into them and get full sound. They're fully self-contained.

They are . . . "FRFR"(s).

 

[Sedaxel]

I'm like 180 out of phase with all y'all. I was all "real cabs are real; fake cabs are fake" for soooooo long. Lately... Spent 45 minutes playing through a Headstrong Princeton Reverb copy two weeks ago and came home to plug into my Axe III running into my QSCk8.2 with Princeton Reverb model and was just as happy.

At home?

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

At home?

Not gigging, but in larger open room with second guitarist. Same way I use to be all "fake cabs are fake".

 

[Sedaxel]

Not gigging, but in larger open room with second guitarist. Same way I use to be all "fake cabs are fake".

Ok.

I've given enough chances to "FRFR" speakers. I don't know why, but they can't stand up to a 12" guitar speaker. Tried everything... Just to realize that I'm always enjoying MUCH MORE a guitar speaker.

At home, the difference is not that clear. But at high volumes, rehearsing, gigging... No way, man. It's been a lot of times, and not even in one of them the "FRFR" has been better than a guitar speaker.

So, if it would have been random chances, then I would still doubt a little. But the thing is that EVERY SINGLE TIME I've tried, the guitar speaker is nicer in a rehearsal/gig situation, in my experience.

So I got it clear. Now, everyone's experience will tell. For me, the doubts have gone.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Ok.

I've given enough chances to ""FRFR"" speakers. I don't know why, but they can't stand up to a 12" guitar speaker. Tried everything... Just to realize that I'm always enjoying MUCH MORE a guitar speaker.

At home, the difference is not that clear. But at high volumes, rehearsing, gigging... No way, man. It's been a lot of times, and not even in one of them the ""FRFR"" has been better than a guitar speaker.

So, if it would have been random chances, then I would still doubt a little. But the thing is that EVERY SINGLE TIME I've tried, the guitar speaker is nicer in a rehearsal/gig situation, in my experience.

So I got it clear. Now, everyone's experience will tell. For me, the doubts have gone.

Yeah. I mean, my only point is that I've written that exact same point before, in contexts ranging from playing at home to playing with others, but lately, for me... eh