Sell Outs
- Thread starter State of Epicicity
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JiveTurkey
Goatlord
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"Up next; Scott Weiland and Chester Bennington!"Geesh. Is it Greatest Hits & Misses Of The Gear Forum Day or wut??
paisleywookiee
Rock Star
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I would rather listen to STP or LP any day of the week than KISS. I'd even rather listen to STP WITH Chester."Up next; Scott Weiland and Chester Bennington!"
JiveTurkey
Goatlord
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I like a bit of both actually. But I also find fun in
Not big on Chester in either context but I can see the talent nonetheless.
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paisleywookiee
Rock Star
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Not remotely a contest. And Natalie would agree with me too.LP over Kiss?
JiveTurkey
Goatlord
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You're probably right about that.
TSJMajesty
Rock Star
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Let's see..., who else sucks?
paisleywookiee
Rock Star
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Oh alright. It’s not fair to bash on bands. I just have childhood trauma from a friend who’s a major KISS fan and would never stop playing it, never stop talking about them.
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First of all, in order to know if somebody has sold out, you will need to know their inner thoughts about why they have done what they have done. Therefore, labeling them a sell out is simply your judgement of what they have done now compared to what they have done in the past and your personal beliefs on what "sell out" is defined as.
Now let's take an individual who is only interested in money. They find that a certain genre of music is very popular right now, and they want some of the green flowing into that genre, so they pursue and are successful at said venture. Then a new genre of music comes along and they decide to switch gears into that genre, simply because there is more money in it. Are they a sell out? I think not as they went into this venture to make money and they are following the money. With Metallica, I have no clue about their story, but from what I have read in this thread, they were not focused on being the "Best metal band in the world" but instead being the "Biggest metal band in the world". Although this may not be "money" based (though one could conjecture that is what they meant when they said they wanted to be the biggest as in most sales), it is at the very least something other than an artistic pursuit. It is a goal of fans and adoring rather than making the best music you can possibly make.
Then of course there is the individual who is only interested in the art. They want to simply create the best music they can regardless of money returns or popularity. If that artist one day says "Fuck it, I am not going to listen to my inner self anymore and instead going to make whatever is going to make me the most money", that is a sell out in my definition. They have abandoned their original goal in pursuit of another goal. Now this new goal may have higher priority in their life now than the original goal did. When they were a teenager and life was easy and free, they could hold that artistic idealism while preaching from a pedestal, and then the Universe slapped them in the face as an adult. Rather than getting a job flipping burgers, they decided to make music that could make them money even though it was in conflict with the ideals that formed their initial musical ventures. So in such scenario, they are selling out on one level, but it is to pay for survival on another level (a level where they can still make music rather than doing a job they hate). This goes back to the idea of without knowing all their inner thoughts and a clear definition of the term, it is hard to say what a sell out really is.
I applaud anyone who is out there trying to make music in this day and age. As programs from schools continue to get cut, artists continue to get fucked with a spiked glove by corporate interests and the market is so saturated with content that not a single individual will ever hear even 1% of the music created in this world, it is a tough decision to devote your time and efforts to music. UNLESS YOU LOVE MAKING MUSIC! And if you do love making music, and you continue to do so regardless of the lack of returns (money, adoration, popularity), then you have not sold out in at least some sense of the phrase and are actually living the dream of any true artist, to create and deploy.
Lot's of good points made here and kudos to SoE for starting the thread! Good topic for debate ;~))
Now let's take an individual who is only interested in money. They find that a certain genre of music is very popular right now, and they want some of the green flowing into that genre, so they pursue and are successful at said venture. Then a new genre of music comes along and they decide to switch gears into that genre, simply because there is more money in it. Are they a sell out? I think not as they went into this venture to make money and they are following the money. With Metallica, I have no clue about their story, but from what I have read in this thread, they were not focused on being the "Best metal band in the world" but instead being the "Biggest metal band in the world". Although this may not be "money" based (though one could conjecture that is what they meant when they said they wanted to be the biggest as in most sales), it is at the very least something other than an artistic pursuit. It is a goal of fans and adoring rather than making the best music you can possibly make.
Then of course there is the individual who is only interested in the art. They want to simply create the best music they can regardless of money returns or popularity. If that artist one day says "Fuck it, I am not going to listen to my inner self anymore and instead going to make whatever is going to make me the most money", that is a sell out in my definition. They have abandoned their original goal in pursuit of another goal. Now this new goal may have higher priority in their life now than the original goal did. When they were a teenager and life was easy and free, they could hold that artistic idealism while preaching from a pedestal, and then the Universe slapped them in the face as an adult. Rather than getting a job flipping burgers, they decided to make music that could make them money even though it was in conflict with the ideals that formed their initial musical ventures. So in such scenario, they are selling out on one level, but it is to pay for survival on another level (a level where they can still make music rather than doing a job they hate). This goes back to the idea of without knowing all their inner thoughts and a clear definition of the term, it is hard to say what a sell out really is.
I applaud anyone who is out there trying to make music in this day and age. As programs from schools continue to get cut, artists continue to get fucked with a spiked glove by corporate interests and the market is so saturated with content that not a single individual will ever hear even 1% of the music created in this world, it is a tough decision to devote your time and efforts to music. UNLESS YOU LOVE MAKING MUSIC! And if you do love making music, and you continue to do so regardless of the lack of returns (money, adoration, popularity), then you have not sold out in at least some sense of the phrase and are actually living the dream of any true artist, to create and deploy.
Lot's of good points made here and kudos to SoE for starting the thread! Good topic for debate ;~))
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Frodebro
Shredder
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Oh alright. It’s not fair to bash on bands. I just have childhood trauma from a friend who’s a major KISS fan and would never stop playing it, never stop talking about them.
I consider myself lucky to be the perfect age where I was just young enough to miss out on KISS, and just old enough to have my musical interests firmly ingrained before hair metal fucked everything up.
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These kids who were born after the 70's and never grew up with KISS will never understand.
They were literally a phenomenon back then.
And Ace inspired many to pick up the guitar.
I don't think their music is technically brilliant in the least (then again it doesn't have to be; I mean, look at a lot of popular shit today). In fact, I used to pooh-pooh KISS back in the day because of it.
Regardless, you can't deny the huge influence they had on rock music. Dudes have been rock n roll royalty for decades now.
They were literally a phenomenon back then.
And Ace inspired many to pick up the guitar.
I don't think their music is technically brilliant in the least (then again it doesn't have to be; I mean, look at a lot of popular shit today). In fact, I used to pooh-pooh KISS back in the day because of it.
Regardless, you can't deny the huge influence they had on rock music. Dudes have been rock n roll royalty for decades now.
Frodebro
Shredder
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Those are fighting words
I really never understand comments like these regarding the music.
Their music is very much in-line with other rock music of the time (the earlier stuff, pre-Dynasty, anyway).
The music is passable, but their lyrics were extremely juvenile. And I felt that way when I was fifteen years old, so that’s REALLY bad.
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Korn. What kind of name is that?
I mean, who actually names their band after particles in fecal matter?
paisleywookiee
Rock Star
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Holden Afart
Roadie
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The original post says "Who has done it, and how?" so I think you are fine trashing anyone you like if you think they have sold out! I hated Kiss (and Led Zeppelin, and Prince) because my sister loved them, so I figured they had to be shit! To this day, I have never owned a Kiss album or recording of any form and never will (I was more into Zappa, King Crimson, Floyd, good jazz, fusion, etc.), but I am going to cover "Rock And Roll All Night" in my "Rock And Roll" song set just because it is so rock and roll (including it's simplicity) ;~))Oh alright. It’s not fair to bash on bands. I just have childhood trauma from a friend who’s a major KISS fan and would never stop playing it, never stop talking about them.
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