Quad Cortex plugin support officially goes from "soon" to "eventually"

yeky83 said:
OK, let's do napkin paper math with low estimates.
1, 3, 6, 9 positions for 7 knobs, 4^7. Let's say the test signal takes 10 seconds. That's still 46 hours.
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I think interpolation would really only make sense if all you wanted is to kinda "morph" between two specific settings.

But that could as well lead to some interesting inbetween things.
Let's say setting 1 is GBMT=2222, setting 2 would be 8888. You'd also set the tonestack in your capturing device accordingly. Once done with those two captures, you'd tell the device to please interpolate between the two as good as possible - the rest would happen behind the scenes. Whether that'd result in anything meaningful for inbetween tonstack values, whether it'd be any authentic - that'd largely depend on the complexity of the amp and the interpolation algorithm.
It could then be possible to add another capture, should the calculated interpolation not work out in a desirable way.

I've got absolutely no idea whether that'd be technically possible.
 
laxu said:
Fractal's modifier system allows for all kinds of shenanigans when attached to pitch or envelope followers.
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Yeah, I know. Unfortunately, I have zero first hand experience with it (when I had an Axe FX borrowed for a week a long time ago, I didn't dive as deep).
However, Guitar Rig is a modulation monster, too. You can get massively better results out of the rather mediocre models when making clever use of those features. And obviously, you can do quite weird things - such as amps distorting *more* when you turn down your guitar volume (at least within a certain range - I mean, no volume is no volume...), which feels incredibly strange.
 
JiveTurkey said:
"So easy to do!"
*laughs in "adds 3 amp models in 3 years time"*
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Not being a modeler user for an extremely long time, I’ve been sort of curious how their pace compares to other platforms (Fractal/Line6) when they were in a similar place, trying to crank out models. (Noting that Fractal for example doesn’t seem to prioritze cranking out many models now, given the size of their existing stable of amps)

Neural has released one new amp in 8 months and “revised” 3. If you expand that out to the last twelve months they’ve added four amps and revised three. That seems a hell of a lot closer to that one dude spending 7 weeks a model, then Watson cranking these things out daily.
 
Whizzinby said:
Neural has released one new amp in 8 months and “revised” 3. If you expand that out to the last twelve months they’ve added four amps and revised three. That seems a hell of a lot closer to that one dude spending 7 weeks a model, then Watson cranking these things out daily.
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Comparisons are odious, as they say. But if you contrast the number of amps (and FX!) introduced by the likes of Helix and AxeFX over their first two years of updates, well... it's not great for the QC.
 
Lysander said:
Comparisons are odious, as they say. But if you contrast the number of amps (and FX!) introduced by the likes of Helix and AxeFX over their first two years of updates, well... it's not great for the QC.
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Yeah, not being a modeler guy during their infancy, was just sorta curious how they stack up. Not that methodology fundamentally matters as long A) They sound good and B) They are being released at a satisfactory pace for the user base.
 
JiveTurkey said:
"So easy to do!"
*laughs in "adds 3 amp models in 3 years time"*
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Because they are not sitting idle
It’s what we mentioned in prior thread
QC owners have bought the QC you can’t sell them anything
It like AT&T they don’t care about existing customers they offer the deal to new comers and try to entice them
Neural is similar they need to keep a steady stream of revenue that’s why they keep putting out plug ins

I will not be surprised to see them launch or announce Dual cortex
At NAMM , because it attracts new buyers and allows them to whip up the hype train again ,
If this happens to then you will know why the update last year were so slow and what other Projects and developments they were working on that they are now going to pull staff to work on plug in porting
 
FWIW:
If you were to do interpolation-based black-box it's an N-dimensional interpolation table, where N is the number of controls, and each entry in the table is a vector. For example, if there are only two knobs then it's a two-dimensional lookup table and you interpolate linearly between adjacent vectors.

For interpolation to work you typically need more than a few samples. I would consider 5 samples per control the bare minimum. For a control that goes 0-10 that means samples at 0, 2.5, 5, 7.5 and 10. I'm not sure how well that coarse of a sampling would work though. It depends on the locus of the coefficients vs knob position.

So for an amp with, say, Gain, BMT, Presence, Depth and Master you have seven controls. That means your table is 7-dimensions which, for five samples is 5^7 = 78,125 entries.

If it takes a minute to learn each combination of settings that's 54 days. And that's assuming you have a robot that can adjust these controls for you accurately, nothing ever malfunctions and the power doesn't go out. I've yet to see a robot that can be programmed to turn amp knobs but I'm sure it could be done. It would likely be very expensive.

If an amp has switches then that's another dimension but that dimension only has two (or three if it's a three-way switch) elements. So if our hypothetical amp has a three-way switch it would now take 162 days to learn it. If it has two three-way switches then it's 324 days. Etc.

Now we get into data storage. Let's say there's 1K coefficients that are required for each vector. This means you need to store 78M coefficients (for each switch position).

Given the above the interested reader can probably draw conclusions about the techniques being used for adjustable amp models.
 
GTR37 said:
Maybe nothing but they filed the trademark

trademarks.justia.com

DUAL CORTEX Trademark Application of Neural DSP Technologies Oy - Serial Number 90145477 :: Justia Trademarks

Computer hardware devices that model amplifiers, effects pedals, and musical instruments
trademarks.justia.com trademarks.justia.com
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AcceptableBothImago-size_restricted.gif
 
mbenigni said:
4. Use your Quad Cortex.

The parade of double standards on this one is just a little glaring. I get that the ToneX was only $400, but that's not nothing. From there we have: also stole its most fundamental selling point from Kemper (and in more specific terms, one could argue, from NDSP! But here, no one cares.) Has a genuinely f***ed up UI (whereas on NDSP we managed to ferret out a couple of details we didn't love. But here, no one cares.) Comes from big corporate entity with a long history of selling lots of discrete products a la microtransactions, as if they were trying to *gasp* make money. (Not IK, surely...)

I don't want to overstate my frustration. The ToneX pedal is cool, and it is a GREAT value. But it's actually been a distraction for me, more than anything else. I probably shouldn't have rushed to register the half dozen software products that came with (I think), because now I don't know how to put the genie back in the bottle.
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OK, gradually moving from "don't want to overstate my frustration" toward "couldn't possibly overstate my frustration". The ASIO driver doesn't work on Windows 10 (at least not my installation of Windows 10). The website offers this helpful information regarding minimum requirements (and I quote): "None." USB noise renders audio just about unusable when connected to a PC anyway. I decided to steer clear of my PC, and go with the iPad app. That app appears to offer about half the functionality of the Windows app, and was crashing to desktop every time I clicked on the ToneNET button. Turned out there was an update available. I installed that, and now the ToneNET button hourglasses for 20 seconds or so and pops up a helpful, "Error: An error has occurred" message. I'm invited to enter a s/n to register and get free premium models (even though I thought they would all be free per the "included" ToneX Max, which is now also a $10/month subscription??) but when I enter the s/n, I get another helpful "Error: An error has occurred" message. Three different computing devices and two completely different operating systems, and I'm hard pressed to find anything that isn't at least a little bit borked. And I'm no technophobe.

End rant. For the moment...
 
mbenigni said:
OK, gradually moving from "don't want to overstate my frustration" toward "couldn't possibly overstate my frustration". The ASIO driver doesn't work on Windows 10 (at least not my installation of Windows 10). The website offers this helpful information regarding minimum requirements (and I quote): "None." USB noise renders audio just about unusable when connected to a PC anyway. I decided to steer clear of my PC, and go with the iPad app. That app appears to offer about half the functionality of the Windows app, and was crashing to desktop every time I clicked on the ToneNET button. Turned out there was an update available. I installed that, and now the ToneNET button hourglasses for 20 seconds or so and pops up a helpful, "Error: An error has occurred" message. I'm invited to enter a s/n to register and get free premium models (even though I thought they would all be free per the "included" ToneX Max, which is now also a $10/month subscription??) but when I enter the s/n, I get another helpful "Error: An error has occurred" message. Three different computing devices and two completely different operating systems, and I'm hard pressed to find anything that isn't at least a little bit borked. And I'm no technophobe.

End rant. For the moment...
Click to expand...
Return it. At this point; you've done your due diligence.
 
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