Modelers Losing Their Luster

[laxu]

Are you tired of 1000s of models?

I keep gravitating towards the same thing: Marshalls, Greenbacks, tape echo and plate reverb. All the other stuff is starting to feel like distractions and complications. I'm not any less happy using a Strymon Iridium with a mere 3 models than using a Fractal with 300+. As long as there's a few sounds I love, it's all good.

I think the 5150 presence knob and Rectifier adventures threads have started to make me a bit modeler-weary. I'll gladly leave others to fight those battles. Finding some of the Plexis on Fractal had the wrong tonestack didn't reduce the enjoyment I got out of those models before the issue was fixed - I was getting tones I liked and that to me meant those models were all fine and good. I'm clearly in the "I never cared about how accurate they were, I just cared if I could get my tones out of them" camp.

Downsizing to something smaller/simpler?
Going back to amps?
Purging all modelers?

When the Axe-Fx 3 released, I sold my Axe-Fx 2 and decided to "go back to simplicity": bought the Bogner Goldfinger 45 SL, had a great time for a while until someone was selling a Helix Floor for very good price so I quickly ended up with another modeler. Over a few years that ballooned to another tube amp + cab + BluGuitar Amp 1 ME. Then FM3, QC, which finally ended up getting all sold and there's an Axe-Fx 3 on my desk. Tube amps got sold - again.

I like the idea of having every amp/cab/effect known to man in one box. But in reality I never end up using more than a fraction of what is in there so everything needed to support having all that stuff ends up bringing complication that you don't have with something that does less. Editors, plenty of menus, excess of parameters I'll never touch (which perhaps speaks to how good some defaults are on Fractal fx...) and so on.

I think there's one thing that they haven't nailed yet. I can't use a modeler like my pedalboard: free-form experimentation with sounds. It doesn't support a "what if I turn this and this, then this and this on another pedal" approach which takes a few seconds on pedals with dedicated knobs to find new sounds, or go from bad ones to better ones. It is a lot of block clicking back-and-forth, virtual knob turning etc to do on any modeler.

While I don't think modelers will ever quite get to that level as it's hard to go against dozens of dedicated knobs, I hope the next gen will get much closer. I really enjoyed the basic block editing experience on the Quad Cortex.

You've grown to hate modelers?

Absolutely not. I know myself: If I don't have a modeler I'll most likely at some point buy another amp "for variety", or in reality just get bored with what I have.

How's your back?

Back is fine because my real amp rig is ridiculously light! The BluGuitar Amp 1 goes into its own little carry bag. My Bluetone 4x10 is made of paulownia and weighs only about 16 kg / ~35 lbs - less than some 1x12s. My BluGuitar Nanocab is 10 kg / ~ 22 lbs and it's adorable in how tiny it is.

 

[Orvillain]

Modelers taught people that amps don't matter as much as we think they do. Modelers taught people to think about writing and recording in a totally different light. Now we're picking overall sounds/chains rather than amps, for example. You want a sound? You can just get it, for the most part. That's both cool and also underwhelming at the same time. I'd say it tends to push people away from caring about gear, and more towards just going for the sounds in their head and modelers are a tool for that. I don't think there's anything wrong with that either. They've lost some sheen, but still a critical tool in the chain of modern music - and in the case of live shows and touring probably even more critical than tube amps.

I'd say completely the opposite. Modellers taught people that amps matter a lot, and that every little bit in the signal chain matters.

This is why you see people like James going on multi-year campaigns to add a specific model to a modeller.... because amps DO matter. There is a reason we're not using 62 bluesbreakers for our brutal metal projects.

 

[sleewell]

I think i love my helix way more now than years ago when I got it.


But yes in general I don't need 1000s of amp models. Give me a few that feel right and I'm good.

 

[DrewJD82]

Definitely not tired of it, seems every few months I’m finding another reason to love it more.

That said, I’m going to be putting a band together in the new year and if I can’t figure out a killer power solution so I can come out of cabs and have the same wallop I used to with Mesa’s and 5150’s, I’m just going to buy an amp.

 

[DrewJD82]

I'd say completely the opposite. Modellers taught people that amps matter a lot, and that every little bit in the signal chain matters.

This is why you see people like James going on multi-year campaigns to add a specific model to a modeller.... because amps DO matter. There is a reason we're not using 62 bluesbreakers for our brutal metal projects.

I think you and Northern are describing two different camps of people.

Ya‘ll are having a blast in that Dual Rec thread and with the amp specifics, but I couldn’t give a two shits about that stuff. I’m more than happy to have guys like you, James or Mirror do that kind of legwork so I don’t have to be concerned about it when I go to make music.

If anything, modeling has made me care less about that stuff because I can wrangle up exactly what’s in my head, more so than trying to recreate something I relied on previously. But I also recognize that’s because all the legwork has been done to get it to the point it’s at now.

I don’t want to cook anything, don’t really want to discuss ingredients, I just want to eat.

 

[Lysander]

Are you tired of 1000s of models?
Downsizing to something smaller/simpler?

Man, it took L6 giving us a great 2203 to have James questioning his purpose in life.

 

[James Freeman]

Man, it took L6 giving us a great 2003 to have James questioning his purpose in life.

2003 was given by god.

 

[TubeStack]

Man, it took L6 giving us a great 2003 to have James questioning his purpose in life.

 

[Axe]

Nope

I still own tube amps and I own plenty of modelers. I have to say I use the modelers far more than the amps.

 

[Lysander]

2003 was given by god.

Gah, stupid phone autocorrect, be less stupid!

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Yes and no or in German…jein

Aside from the UAFX boxes i got no time for hardware modellers.
I mean i wanna take the bare minimum when travelling and its literally a UAFX, OD and maybe a delay.

I dig plugins, and as much as i dislike NDSP i have like 15 of their plugs, plus pretty much everything else there is.
Yet i much prefer to use profiling stuff, software…Tonocracy, hardware Tonex

Now having said that i still got 8 amps that i use a lot. And just as with hardware stuff irregardless if its uafx, or Tonicracy it gies power amp and splits to Ox fir sims and miked cab.
I actually use my software modellers the same way.
Route them out through re-amp box into power amp split to Ox and cab, Ox going to boss sde3000evh back into soundcard as wet/dry/wet.

 

[aerial7]

Are you tired of 1000s of models?
Downsizing to something smaller/simpler?
Going back to amps?
Purging all modelers?

Been all-in on modeling since the Boss GX-700 because of a simple premise: Smaller more flexible even if the tones are imperfect versus the size, weight, cost and maintenance of real amps. Nevermind the volume.... And how many amps does a guitarist have to flip before they find The One(s) that cover their needs?

 

[aerial7]

I think there's one thing that they haven't nailed yet. I can't use a modeler like my pedalboard: free-form experimentation with sounds. It doesn't support a "what if I turn this and this, then this and this on another pedal" approach which takes a few seconds on pedals with dedicated knobs to find new sounds, or go from bad ones to better ones. It is a lot of block clicking back-and-forth, virtual knob turning etc to do on any modeler.

Great point.

I think software plug-ins will show us the way on this. Blue Cat's Axiom allows you to open each block in a separate window; of course, you have to manage the windows so they don't overlap, etc., but that seems like an okay trade-off for those times when you really want to do this.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Inspired by Laxu's post.

Are you tired of 1000s of models?
Downsizing to something smaller/simpler?
Going back to amps?
Purging all modelers?
Was it just GAS that passed?
You've grown to hate modelers?
Ain't nobody got time for that?
How's your back?

Discuss

Sorry for the OP quote; I want to address it all :)

1. No. The more the merrier. Even if I only ever stick with Boogies.

2. For gigging; I'm always striving to streamline the Rube Goldberg machine. It's probably my biggest trigger for making me fuck around with my rig.

3. Once I got an amp or two back in my life and took it out for gigs ESPECIALLY; I re-realized their necessity in my world.

4. I'm always purging, but as of late; I've been about keeping it in one brand as much as possible and trying to get a bit of consistency in that regard.

5. GAS is eternal. Duh!

6. No hate; just

7. There's always time \m/

8. I can certainly feel it when the rig balloons up to a LOT of pieces. Right now, especially last week with the rack and 1/8 stack and what seemed like a million other bags with cables and controllers; it's getting a bit up there

 

[Achilles]

#RealAmpsForLife

AMEN brother! The extent of the rabbit hole these days.

 

[Frodebro]

Joining a casual “Dad Band” has created a new level of appreciation for the versatility of digital. This isn’t a gigging band, we just get together weekly to play songs that we all like. This covers every era from the sixties to now, so there is a lot of ground to cover. I’m having almost as much fun building all these various song and era specific presets as I am playing the songs.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Joining a casual “Dad Band” has created a new level of appreciation for the versatility of digital. This isn’t a gigging band, we just get together weekly to play songs that we all like. This covers every era from the sixties to now, so there is a lot of ground to cover. I’m having almost as much fun building all these various song and era specific presets as I am playing the songs.

I kinda wish I had a regular jamming situation that involved everyone using modelers

 

[Frodebro]

I kinda wish I had a regular jamming situation that involved everyone using modelers

I‘m the only one in this group with a digital rig. The other guitarist is running a traditional, small pedalboard into an AC-15. We also have a keyboard player, so we’re doing a lot of stuff that standard two guitar bands don’t. Steely Dan, Toto, Tears For Fears, we’re all over the place.

The keyboardist and I are both running into a pair of EV 15” monitors (stereo), and I can get the thumps going through those pretty well.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I‘m the only one in this group with a digital rig. The other guitarist is running a traditional, small pedalboard into an AC-15. We also have a keyboard player, so we’re doing a lot of stuff that standard two guitar bands don’t. Steely Dan, Toto, Tears For Fears, we’re all over the place.

The keyboardist and I are both running into a pair of EV 15” monitors (stereo), and I can get the thumps going through those pretty well.

It'll be interesting to see how things pan out for you when/if you get to the gigging point. Gigs and my inability to blend in with our other guitarist's amp based rig were what pushed me back to a traditional amp in the mix.

 

[Jarick]

I get annoyed with the options and tweaking, which is why I bought a Friedman IRX. Running that in 4cm with a modeler to use all the pre and post effects is best of both worlds. But mostly I get real lazy and just use the modeler.

Still though I also really enjoy the NDSP plugins. They are typically plug and play and can sound great with minimal tweaking. They have drawbacks but I think that could be the standard for ease of use for guitarists.

I don’t see ever going fully to amps because I don’t need the volume or weight. Modelers are just way too convenient to do amps and hundreds of effects without buying tons of pedals and connecting everything and all that.