I Gotta Wonder About Fractal's, er, "Perception"

[paisleywookiee]

I don’t think having a more, uh, modern interface would hurt anything. If there was a toggle for the full UI and a dummy-proof touchscreen UI with all the extra shit tucked away they’d probably move a few more units. As we’ve seen from recent events, just putting pretty pictures on the screen will have people convinced something sounds great even when it’s dookie. Imagine if it actually sounded great, too.

I hope Fractal and Line 6 never go down the path of skewmorphism. There are many reasons why I wouldn’t buy a TMP, and the Fisher Price UI is definitely one of them.

 

[deadpool_25]

At this point Fractal Gen IV is the only gear I'm really excited about. Not because the FM9 isn't awesome enough already (it absolutely is), but because IME Fractal has a perfect record of constant improvement, both through hardware generations and firmware updates.

I hope Fractal and Line 6 never go down the path of skewmorphism. There are many reasons why I wouldn’t buy a TMP, and the Fisher Price UI is definitely one of them.

I don't much care either way about skeuomorphism IRT Fractal gear. It would be nice if the hardware was easier to navigate so if they decide to add a touchscreen with pretty pictures to to that, I'd be fine with it.

 

[marsonic]

Are we really saying the purists or extreme fan bois would be turned off by this?

Depending on exactly what you mean, I would. But, it's because I hate touch screens.

They're a fine compromise on a phone, at least up to a certain size....because phones do so many things. But, the only way a day will go by that I don't want to flat-out punch my phone and at least half-seriously consider sending it down my garbage disposal are when I can get away with not using it for the whole day. Google and Apple maps, especially, present such a horrible user experience that it has made me decide that I don't actually need to go somewhere.

On a specific-use device like a guitar modeler, a touch screen is always going to be a step backwards in user experience. If nothing else, the ambiguity between dragging and scrolling is a serous problem that no one has figured out how to solve. It has at least slowed you down (and at worst caused serious errors) since the palm pilot days, and there seems to be no solution even on the horizon.

Everything takes longer and is more error prone on a touch screen than a well-designed physical interface.

The feedback just isn't there...it's far too vague for real control, and it feels like a joke compared to the things that came before it. It's been well over a decade now, but the last laptop I bought was a Lenovo, and 90% of the reason was that it had an alternative to the trackpad, which I disabled in the bios. Gestures and haptics are not a replacement for manipulating a physical thing, even if it's a mouse, trackball, or the little thinkpad nubbin.

So, yeah...if Fractal came out with a touchscreen interface, at best, it would push me to do something like cover the screen with thick acrylic that blocked the screen from ever accepting input and literally only ever make any changes from the editor software. I would rather lose every button/knob on the thing other than the footswitches and volume controls than have to use a touch screen...at least then I wouldn't be paying for hardware I have to go out of my way to not use.

And if they were dumb enough to pull the volume controls into the touch screen, I'd drop FAS completely. That's my line in the sand.

 

[sleewell]

I didn't necessarily mean touch screen. Just a larger screen would be cool.

 

[GTR37]

While I'm happy to discuss Fractal specifics with those interested, for those who already have a preconception of it or how it works, it's really kinda futile. You'll hit a cross roads of "I don't want to spend all that time tweaking" and "Modelers make everything sound the same", so when you try to counter one with the other, they find a supposed 'Gotcha!' while still not understanding how any of it works.

And if you have a legit counter for any claim, out come the caveats. It's easier to just rock out with the things, the people who need a Fractal in their lives will find their way to it.

Ya there was one guy on the FAS forum and everyone was trying to help him and he was adamant about not tweaking anything , give me presets that work for me right out of the box, and many tried explaining it does not work like that .

He refused to read the manual at all
Just wanted to download presets from Axechange and have them sound ideal in his rig

For that guy , realistically it is probably not the right product IMO

 

[GTR37]

Classic Jageyayaya

No he thought everything was overpriced and never really bought any..,,oh wait

 

[Achilles]

On a specific-use device like a guitar modeler, a touch screen is always going to be a step backwards in user experience.

Depends on the implementation and design of the screen. TONS of specific use devices are coming out with TS's now.

 

[OrganicZed]

@ejecta

This was the thread that Cliff started after his banning from TOP. My memory of the situation as described in my previous post doesn't line up well with the information in this thread. Cliff was banned for calling out an alt for a know troll account. When he criticized the moderator team at TOP they banned him because they didn't like being publicly panned.

The infractions and bans of many of our fellow TGF compatriots was related to the issue with NDSP employees not disclosing their affiliations.

Banned from TGP

Banned from TGP for pointing out that a notorious troll is back with an alter ego. Ridiculous. The good guy gets punished while the bad guy gets to continue to abuse the system.

forum.fractalaudio.com

 

[Achilles]

Quick question for the older Fractal users.

How was the transition from dial phones to push button for you?

 

[GTR37]

I am not against a touchscreen on a Fractal but it has to be well implemented the QC just is not responsive enough
A touchscreen is good if it enhances the workflow and not hinders it by having to click several times ,
Based on how many love and use Axe Edit , I would say Fractal has the guys to design such a thing if they choose to
OTOH not having a touchscreen or iOS amp is certainly not a deal breaker

 

[OrganicZed]

Continued...

 

[laxu]

It really isn't justified, no.

I just spent the other day working with the Axe3 hardware exclusively. In terms of putting together a chain with some pre effects, an amp, some post effects, and then an output ... it really isn't that different to using a Helix. I don't care how many Laxu armies you throw at me, I just don't accept that for the n00biest of n00b experiences that you could ever squeeze into a bottle and sell to n00bs.... that it is particularly difficult to use. It isn't.

Where it gets difficult to use is the advanced stuff - modifiers, midi assignments, foot controller setup, performance parameters, stuff like that.

I will say that doing cleverer advanced splits and routing and re-arranging the order of blocks and things like that ... that is a lot more tricky on the Axe III than the Helix. Helix allows me to select a block and click into a "move" mode, and I cannot find that function in the main layout edit panel. I know there are move left/right functions in the "Tools" sub panel... but that functionality should really be front and centre in my opinion.

Hello, and welcome to my first UI/UX rant of the year. Please enjoy the complimentary popcorn.

It's not that it's difficult to learn. It's that it's annoying to use every day compared to Axe-Edit, Helix, QC etc. That's really where the "difficult" moniker comes from IMO.

The "move a block" functionality is a perfect example. Helix's way is as simple as a baby picking up a toy from the floor and putting it somewhere else, most likely in their mouth!

By comparison, Fractal's way is how a programmer made it as simple for them to implement, with zero consideration for user experience. It's a list of functions you need to scroll one by one, buried under page 3: Tools in the layout grid. That's been there since the first gen Axe-Fx and in all these years nobody at Fractal seemingly said "you know what, using this sucks, let's make it better!"

That's just the tip of the iceberg of many issues that are in the hardware operation, but don't exist in Axe-Edit. People give Fractal props for quickly fixing any issues with the modeling - no matter how minor - but at the same time there's a laundry list of usability related issues that never get any attention just because it's not of interest to Cliff and seemingly not a concern for anyone in the company.

It's frustrating to see companies that have products that do many things really well, only to stumble on specific points, whether it's Fractal's usability issues, IK's Tonex app/Tone.net, UA's refusal to have sensible features on their pedals etc.

 

[paisleywookiee]

At this point Fractal Gen IV is the only gear I'm really excited about. Not because the FM9 isn't awesome enough already (it absolutely is), but because IME Fractal has a perfect record of constant improvement, both through hardware generations and firmware updates.


I don't much care either way about skeuomorphism IRT Fractal gear. It would be nice if the hardware was easier to navigate so if they decide to add a touchscreen with pretty pictures to to that, I'd be fine with it.

Skewmorphism only serves to placate people refusing to read the manual, and harms the limited screen real estate. If it’s included, it’d be nice to be able to turn off, as well.

 

[Achilles]

It's not that it's difficult to learn. It's that it's annoying to use every day compared to Axe-Edit, Helix, QC etc.

Fractal's way is how a programmer made it as simple for them to implement.

The two points that really hit the mark imo.

 

[Foxmeister]

(wait, do i click the Value encoder? Enter? Edit?)

Good luck clicking the value encoder on the FM3 - it's the only current Fractal unit that doesn't have a clickable value encoder!

As least my Mk1 FM3 didn't - no idea if the MK2 has!

 

[JiveTurkey]

No he thought everything was overpriced and never really bought any..,,oh wait

 

[Rock Chalk]

Hello, and welcome to my first UI/UX rant of the year. Please enjoy the complimentary popcorn.

It's not that it's difficult to learn. It's that it's annoying to use every day compared to Axe-Edit, Helix, QC etc. That's really where the "difficult" moniker comes from IMO.

The "move a block" functionality is a perfect example. Helix's way is as simple as a baby picking up a toy from the floor and putting it somewhere else, most likely in their mouth!

By comparison, Fractal's way is how a programmer made it as simple for them to implement, with zero consideration for user experience. It's a list of functions you need to scroll one by one, buried under page 3: Tools in the layout grid. That's been there since the first gen Axe-Fx and in all these years nobody at Fractal seemingly said "you know what, using this sucks, let's make it better!"

That's just the tip of the iceberg of many issues that are in the hardware operation, but don't exist in Axe-Edit. People give Fractal props for quickly fixing any issues with the modeling - no matter how minor - but at the same time there's a laundry list of usability related issues that never get any attention just because it's not of interest to Cliff and seemingly not a concern for anyone in the company.

It's frustrating to see companies that have products that do many things really well, only to stumble on specific points, whether it's Fractal's usability issues, IK's Tonex app/Tone.net, UA's refusal to have sensible features on their pedals etc.

 

[Orvillain]

 

[Achilles]

There's two kinds of people in the world.

Person #1 is like my son. He owns the most powerful video game hardware there is and plays the most complex games he can find. Not just mano y mano stuff, but controlling armies and huge inventories of life sustaining supplies and stocking up on certain ammo based on which geographical location of the game he's headed off to, etc. He tries to explain what's going on to me and I'm lost in less than 30 seconds. I can tell he's enjoying the heck out of himself while playing, but the game would drive me absolutely bonkers.

Person #2 is like me. I play Wordle and Spelling Bee on my phone and it brings me joy.

 

[Orvillain]

There's two kinds of people n the world.

Person #1 is like my son. He owns the most powerful video game hardware there is and plays the most complex games he can find. Not just mano y mano stuff, but controlling armies and huge inventories of life sustaining supplies and stocking up on certain ammo based on which geographical location of the game he's headed off to, etc. He tries to explain what's going on to me and I'm lost in less than 30 seconds. I can tell he's enjoying the heck out of himself while playing, but the game would drive me absolutely bonkers.

Person #2 is like me. I play Wordle and Spelling Bee on my phone and it brings me joy.

Person #3 - old fat dude who just watches Skyrim playthroughs. (me)