I Gotta Wonder About Fractal's, er, "Perception"

[marsonic]

Depends on the implementation and design of the screen. TONS of specific use devices are coming out with TS's now.

I figured someone would bring up POS terminals and kiosks in restaurants and grocery stores - those....idk. They're still frustrating, but I guess it's worth it compared to a larger interface.

The vast majority of them are abominations of design.

It's not that it's difficult to learn. It's that it's annoying to use every day compared to Axe-Edit, Helix, QC etc.
...
By comparison, Fractal's way is how a programmer made it as simple for them to implement, with zero consideration for user experience.

Agreed. Improvement in that area would be a welcome change, even if it's not a priority for me. I'd probably want move/swap block functions with the nav buttons and enter key, even if you still had to re-do the cables with the same method afterwards.

 

[duzie]

Don’t worry I got this

 

[laxu]

On a specific-use device like a guitar modeler, a touch screen is always going to be a step backwards in user experience. If nothing else, the ambiguity between dragging and scrolling is a serous problem that no one has figured out how to solve. It has at least slowed you down (and at worst caused serious errors) since the palm pilot days, and there seems to be no solution even on the horizon.

I disagree. I had a great time using the QC touchscreen, even if it's not as good as something on your phone or tablet.

Dragging vs scrolling are rarely happening at the same time. Multitouch is one solution if both need to happen at once, but not often utilized because it works best on a tablet size device. Otherwise "user held their finger for x ms over this draggable object -> initiate drag n' drop" is the standard way to do it. I consider it a pretty solved problem.

What touchscreens lose in tactile feedback, you gain in how fast it is to go from one place to another. It's a lot of clicks on a cursor based system to go from one end of a list or grid to the other end. A touchscreen makes that a single tap.

But it's extremely important to keep some physical knobs, because those are always better than having to drag a slider on screen or trying to turn virtual knobs when your finger is covering the whole knob when dragging over it.

The knobs don't need to be the controversial knob/switches on QC or TMP, but just freakin' put enough of them on the device! 3 is not enough, 4 kinda sucks, 6-8 is a good start.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I am betting we will see that consensus here about 10 more pages in.

 

[ejecta]

@ejecta

This was the thread that Cliff started after his banning from TOP. My memory of the situation as described in my previous post doesn't line up well with the information in this thread. Cliff was banned for calling out an alt for a know troll account. When he criticized the moderator team at TOP they banned him because they didn't like being publicly panned.

The infractions and bans of many of our fellow TGF compatriots was related to the issue with NDSP employees not disclosing their affiliations.

Banned from TGP

Banned from TGP for pointing out that a notorious troll is back with an alter ego. Ridiculous. The good guy gets punished while the bad guy gets to continue to abuse the system.

forum.fractalaudio.com

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Thanks for the clarification. I’ve gotten some time outs for that very thing TGP and almost a perma ban. Look… their house their rules. You don’t like them then don’t go there and evidently you can run go start your own forum to escape the mean meanies. I still post some there and their classifieds are a much better place to buy and sell than here quite frankly. Honestly I found the whole NDSP conspiracy story like a lot of conspiracy theories I’ve heard, they have some truth but not really accurate at all but a fun thing to watch people bug out about.

 

[Achilles]

tactile feedback

That is so 20th century man!
You want tactile feedback? Stop fiddling with buttons and knobs and get your hands back on the guitar.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Then there’s the dude who has been posting Fractal videos regularly for the past few years, who all of a sudden is finding faults with everything about it while trying to position himself to be the Leon Todd of the TMP…

If he wants to be the Leon Todd of the TMP, the first thing that guy should possibly strive for is not to be the polar opposite of the "make everything sound nice" folks. I don't expect monster chops, but if you review equipment (or even rave about it), please be decent enough to play at least somewhat better than after your first 4 lessons.

 

[laxu]

That is so 20th century man!
You want tactile feedback? Stop fiddling with buttons and knobs and get your hands back on the guitar.

 

[Achilles]

Where computer displays really once that large?
Talk about so 20th century!

 

[Orvillain]

A touchscreen makes that a single tap.

I mean... you'd hope. But with the QC after about 6 failed taps and the 7th one miraculously works, with you having not done anything different whatsoever .... I just can't really agree with it.

It is the equivalent of your mouse button randomly going "you know what... fuck you, I'm gonna open text edit instead" !

 

[laxu]

I mean... you'd hope. But with the QC after about 6 failed taps and the 7th one miraculously works, with you having not done anything different whatsoever .... I just can't really agree with it.

It is the equivalent of your mouse button randomly going "you know what... fuck you, I'm gonna open text edit instead" !

My experience was nowhere near as bad as that. In fact I was surprised how well the one I had worked.

 

[DrewJD82]

FWIW, the actual situation that got the majority of us banned (perm and/or temp) from TOP was when a NDSP mod on their Discord, I believe Aaron, came to the Non-Owner’s thread, started slinging mud and then immediately hid behind moderation. I believe he’s also the one who banned Mikah at their Discord just because he was posting on the non-owner’s thread, despite not being antagonistic or anything of the sort on Discord (it’s Mikah, that’s not his nature to begin with). Now that I think about it, there was someone from TOP who wouldn’t drop an issue on Discord after being asked, that person was banned and Mikah was guilty by association, then that Discord mod came tot he Non-Owner’s thread and started throwing mud, then boom.

I can’t remember if I got banned for questioning the Waterbound/affiliate thing or not, but I did have a PM discussion with a mod about it after several of us got axed within a couple hours, then my account got the axe. It’s 110% possible and probable I mouthed off to someone publicly with something ban-worthy in that time, it’d be silly for me to hold any grudges about my personal banning, even in the context of the BS bannings at that time.

It’s alllllll good. Everything came out in the wash and outside of the awesome community here that came as a result, I’ll put that/this one on my ‘if you don’t like something, don’t just bitch about it, do something’ score card.

 

[Achilles]

SIX failed taps? I had one for a year and used it daily and I never experienced anything even close to that.

 

[paisleywookiee]

He refused to read the manual at all
Just wanted to download presets from Axechange and have them sound ideal in his rig

I hope he doesn’t drive a car, operate any machinery, or use a computer in the modern age.

 

[Orvillain]

My experience was nowhere near as bad as that. In fact I was surprised how well the one I had worked.

Maybe my unit was faulty in some way? I don't know. It was quite bad. Nowhere near as good as my Waldorf Iridium, which I'd say takes 2-3 taps to activate a function sometimes, if you don't press hard enough.

 

[Orvillain]

I hope he doesn’t drive a car, operate any machinery, or use a computer in the modern age.

You don't need a manual to use a fleshlight.

 

[laxu]

Maybe my unit was faulty in some way? I don't know. It was quite bad. Nowhere near as good as my Waldorf Iridium, which I'd say takes 2-3 taps to activate a function sometimes, if you don't press hard enough.

With the variety of NDSP issues, all bets are off. I don't remember if the QC has a touchscreen calibration feature? Those can help.

 

[TubeStack]

I am not against a touchscreen on a Fractal but it has to be well implemented the QC just is not responsive enough
A touchscreen is good if it enhances the workflow and not hinders it by having to click several times ,

This has not been my recent experience with the QC at all. I've read they improved it?

 

[GTR37]

I disagree. I had a great time using the QC touchscreen, even if it's not as good as something on your phone or tablet.

Dragging vs scrolling are rarely happening at the same time. Multitouch is one solution if both need to happen at once, but not often utilized because it works best on a tablet size device. Otherwise "user held their finger for x ms over this draggable object -> initiate drag n' drop" is the standard way to do it. I consider it a pretty solved problem.

What touchscreens lose in tactile feedback, you gain in how fast it is to go from one place to another. It's a lot of clicks on a cursor based system to go from one end of a list or grid to the other end. A touchscreen makes that a single tap.

But it's extremely important to keep some physical knobs, because those are always better than having to drag a slider on screen or trying to turn virtual knobs when your finger is covering the whole knob when dragging over it.

The knobs don't need to be the controversial knob/switches on QC or TMP, but just freakin' put enough of them on the device! 3 is not enough, 4 kinda sucks, 6-8 is a good start.

I agree a screen like a QC maybe even slightly larger
And 8 encoders would be enough to cover most things
As you mentioned the touchscreen does speed up the movement and the tactile element remains with the encoders best of both worlds

 

[Sascha Franck]

Fwiw, no modeler needs an onboard touchscreen, unless it's meant to be used strictly on a desktop. For pretty much all other scenarios, a decent mobile editor and a solid BT/WiFi connection is the *way* better choice. The manufacturers can save plenty of money and don't have to annoy you with cheap little responsible touchscreens while the customer can place the touchscreen device where it belongs. Next to your hands that is, not on the floor.

And as far as knobs go (I'm 100% with @laxu regarding their usefulness), please feel free to be a little bit imaginative for once and offer a little "bar" of, say, 8 knobs that would originally sit on the modeler but could be detached so I could as well place it next to the editing tablet. The encoders themselves need to be endless and could have small scribble strips and LED rings, but in case the editor interface is nice and responsive, those perhaps wouldn't even be needed (in case you're so greedy you need to use the cheapest endless encoders...).