Multi-effects/modeler VS plugin

[Frodebro]

I don't disagree at all. But the Ampero could do pretty much the same things functionally. I mean, tell me one thing the Ampero can't do that the Stomp can (ideally something within the realm of being useful for someone starting out, even if he/she is advancing a bit).
For example, one of the key features of the Stomp has been that you could use any kind of block in any position. That's not possible on many other of the cheaper chinese offerings. But the Ampero does allow you to use block types as you please. So you could as well just use it as an FX unit. It also allows for parallel/split paths. So there's really not much it's missing. And in addition, it allows you to load captures.
And in comparison, regarding usability, the Stomp is kinda dated. A touchscreen is pretty much a level up for such units.

I haven't checked, but I would bet that the amount of online tutorials and such for the Stomp is probably greater than just about anything else on the market, which somebody brand new would definitely benefit from. Lots more Helix/Stomp owners on the forums, too, so tons of support.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I figured this was the answer and was surprised why you wouldn’t recommend something that you’d personally want to own as a one stop shop device.

As said, I'm a nerd. The Stomp satisfies some of my nerd needs (or "wants").
But then, as said, I don't have any firsthand experience with the Ampero, so I may as well choose that if I had.

The helix isn’t hard to use you don’t need to be a nerd at all.

It's not hard, no. But the Ampero is still more fun to operate (and yes, I can safely say that for a number of reasons, even without firsthand experience). Regarding onboard UI experience, I'd say it wins hands down (minus the capacitive switches, which are just fantastic - even if there's some serious shortcomings related to them on the Stomp).

And seriously, I'm not trying to be the contrarian here. I just try to look at things from the OP's POV. Doesn't read as if he'd need any of the advanced functions any day soon. And if so, he could still upgrade after some time, just as we all did.
IMO, if you start out, it's a lot about instant gratification (which is actually why the NDSP plugins are nice, they just seem to know how to do proper presets, even if you don't go all anal about 100% exact input levels - but I'm not sure whether I'd recommend the plugin-solution for a start at all).

 

[Sascha Franck]

I haven't checked, but I would bet that the amount of online tutorials and such for the Stomp is probably greater than just about anything else on the market, which somebody brand new would definitely benefit from. Lots more Helix/Stomp owners on the forums, too, so tons of support.

Sure. Yet, with the touchscreen, the Ampero will also be easier to operate in the long run.

Again: I'm not trying to be contrarian for the sake of it at all. I love the Stomp (some kinda really annoying issues aside). I will in fact never sell it, heck, I might even get a second one. But I can very clearly see how the Ampero is much more fun to operate.

Otoh, I admittedly kinda ignored this for now, the OP is familiar with the GT-1 already, so there's that (but then, the GT-1 was the last of Boss' GTs that actually offered a kinda nice onboard editing experience, that went completely down the shitter when they removed the individual block switches without offering a sufficient alternative).

 

[[Nathan]]

As said, I'm a nerd. The Stomp satisfies some of my nerd needs (or "wants").
But then, as said, I don't have any firsthand experience with the Ampero, so I may as well choose that if I had.



It's not hard, no. But the Ampero is still more fun to operate (and yes, I can safely say that for a number of reasons, even without firsthand experience). Regarding onboard UI experience, I'd say it wins hands down (minus the capacitive switches, which are just fantastic - even if there's some serious shortcomings related to them on the Stomp).

And seriously, I'm not trying to be the contrarian here. I just try to look at things from the OP's POV. Doesn't read as if he'd need any of the advanced functions any day soon. And if so, he could still upgrade after some time, just as we all did.
IMO, if you start out, it's a lot about instant gratification (which is actually why the NDSP plugins are nice, they just seem to know how to do proper presets, even if you don't go all anal about 100% exact input levels - but I'm not sure whether I'd recommend the plugin-solution for a start at all).

So you'd personally buy the helix but when someone else asks you what to get you'd tell them to buy something you've never even tried or own yourself haha, can you not see the irony here. Imagine they get one and find all these gotchas that you didnt know about, not a great recommendation at all honestly.

Think how many helix owners there are in the world, it doesn't take a genius to use one its not like you need to be a toan scientist or anything, there's a reason they're so popular. There's also a million resources for it because its been out so long, a quick google will get you the answers you need, again cant say the same for the Ampero.

fwiw I'm not dunking on the Ampero they look awesome but its just a weird recommendation when you haven't used one.

 

[Sascha Franck]

can you not see the irony here

No, I can't. The only thing I can see is you not understanding my rationals.

 

[[Nathan]]

No, I can't.

Pretty much explains it, all good.

 

[Frodebro]

No, I can't. The only thing I can see is you not understanding my rationals.

I get it, because I try to do the same thing when answering questions. But I still say Stomp.

 

[Sascha Franck]

But I still say Stomp.

I didn't even vote for the Ampero by 100%. And I absolutely agree that no wizardry is required to operate a Stomp.
Yet, the Ampero looks and apparently operates like a unit made in the mid 2020s, whereas the Stomp isn't exactly that anymore (again: minus the capacitive switches, they're the work of geniuses, no less - but on a small unit they might not be as relevant as on the bigger units).
So I would at least see the Ampero as a pretty serious contender.
And I guess we can safely agree that tone-wise, either unit would be a massive level up compared to the GT-1.

In addition, if I was in the position of just playing at home, I'd possibly go for plugins these days. But I still wouldn't exactly recommend it as there's so many variables kicking in aall of a sudden (latency, Hi-Z input quality, driver stability, CPU demands, noise, etc.). I'm aware of all these, but if you had to work all these out for a start and possibly stumble over some issues, you might as well lose all inspiration already.

In general, I think it's always a good idea to not instantly recommend the stuff you're using, especially in case you're quite experienced already.
For example: I have a Tom Anderson. I love it quite a lot (it's modded quite a bit, though). It's a great allrounder. But I still wouldn't recommend it to anyone looking for an allrounder, even if price was out of the equation (and even without my personalized modding).

Anyway, I think we don't know enough about the OPs needs.

Hence:

Individual tone demonstration of ndsp plugin and for example ampero 2 is there but first, not close to what I want, second, they sound similar.

Could you possibly post some video featuring the kinda tones that you love?

 

[bigmenace]

I'm not gonna go too deep into this, but if you're after hi-gain metal tones, HX Stomp will treat you very well - it just works.
On the other hand I have an Audient interface and NeuralDSP Gojira/Nameless plugins get me all the tones I would ever need. Otto Audio II II is also a very sweet plugin - though they have increased the price now..

Fwiw, it's not worth to spend big bucks only for playing at home with your monitors. Sure, I'd love to have Fractal quality at my hands but the cost doesn't make sense for a bedroom player :)

 

[qwvb1111]

I didn't even vote for the Ampero by 100%. And I absolutely agree that no wizardry is required to operate a Stomp.
Yet, the Ampero looks and apparently operates like a unit made in the mid 2020s, whereas the Stomp isn't exactly that anymore (again: minus the capacitive switches, they're the work of geniuses, no less - but on a small unit they might not be as relevant as on the bigger units).
So I would at least see the Ampero as a pretty serious contender.
And I guess we can safely agree that tone-wise, either unit would be a massive level up compared to the GT-1.

In addition, if I was in the position of just playing at home, I'd possibly go for plugins these days. But I still wouldn't exactly recommend it as there's so many variables kicking in aall of a sudden (latency, Hi-Z input quality, driver stability, CPU demands, noise, etc.). I'm aware of all these, but if you had to work all these out for a start and possibly stumble over some issues, you might as well lose all inspiration already.

In general, I think it's always a good idea to not instantly recommend the stuff you're using, especially in case you're quite experienced already.
For example: I have a Tom Anderson. I love it quite a lot (it's modded quite a bit, though). It's a great allrounder. But I still wouldn't recommend it to anyone looking for an allrounder, even if price was out of the equation (and even without my personalized modding).

Anyway, I think we don't know enough about the OPs needs.

Hence:



Could you possibly post some video featuring the kinda tones that you love?

Sure I will post the tones I want to achieve. But since I am new here, I don't know whether I will be banned or post get removed if I post links.

My ideal tones will be: **maybe loud if you use headphone**





And I am using a Acer laptop with i5 7200 CPU and 8GB ram, I noticed the variables you mentioned.

Focusrite ASIO driver is stable I think? Latency seems low for 2i2 4th gen, I can turn down the buffer to get less latency I suppose? Hi-Z input quality and noise -> completely new to this.

I think in terms of tonal quality, I will choose the one between HX Stomp / Ampero 2 / 2i2 + NDSP plugin that can get me closest to my ideal tone. If all three can achieve the same result, then I will choose the one more... modern and easy to use I suppose? For example Ampero 2 has the largest and even touch screen, maybe DSP is better than Helix Stomp which allows me to put more effects and better sound quality yada yada. But if HX Stomp is better in terms of tonal quality, even if it's processor and screen is not that advanced, I will go for it. But if oh, Scarlett 2i2 + NDSP plugin can simply achieve what I want and it has the lowest cost, all I have to deal with are just the hardware variables and I am done, then I will go that route.

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

When you buy an audio interface like the Focusrite, you have the opportunity to use all kinds of plugins, not only the ones from Neural DSP. Line 6 Helix Native is brilliant and gives you all the sounds you‘d get with an HX Stomp.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

If you’re happy to (or intend to) use your computer then I’d just go plugins. I bet there’s a ton of free NAM models and IR’s that’ll be plenty. Or an NDSP plugin or two if you want a slightly nicer experience to dial stuff in.

 

[ChordInversion]

And FWIW, when I first got my AxeFX 5 years ago, all I cared about were Mesa's and 5150's, but for the last 3.5 years my main preset is an edge of breakup Bassman or Plexi with a Strat and my playing/songwriting went down roads I never thought I'd go down as a result of having different tones available. Because of that, I always urge people to go down to full-on modeler route if they can, you never know what road you're going to want to go down some day and it's a lot more fun having the options there when you want to do so than not.

To me, this is the biggest advantage of modelers. It's also why I prefer a broad selection of amps in mine.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I absolutely second what @TheTrueZoltan! and @MirrorProfiles said: If you are...
a) familiar with computers and the things coming along with them and if you can
b) live with the limitation of being tied to your computer in case you want an amplified guitar sound and
c) don't need to control things with your feet (as in switching patches and what not), then,...
by all means, go that route. It's offering by far the best relation between money spent and quality achieved.

I would think about the interface, though. As I needed a solution for my mobile recording needs, I looked around quite thoroughly and ended up buying a Motu M2. And while it has certain shortcomings (such as no onboard mixing or routing utility app), these are the reasons why I went with it:
- Decent Hi-Z (instrument) inputs.
- Lowest latency in its price bracket. This has been most important to me.
- Powerful headphone out (so you can connect pretty much anything).
- Independent volume controls for headphones and line outs (quite often, HP outs are just a tap of the master volume, that's pretty bad as you have to shut down your monitors each time you want to play with headphones).

There's certainly better interfaces, but to really get a noticeably better experience, you will have to spend quite some more money. And if all you want is playing guitar through the thing, it might not even be relevant at all.

As far as amp sim software goes, for the tone you're after and for starters, I'd download Native Instruments' Guitar Rig Player, which is free. Comes with an interface resembling a rack, and while not too great, it's very easy to get the hang of and the sounds you can get are pretty decent without having to deal with anything else. Also comes as a standalone (and as a plugin), so you don't need a host of whatever kind to just play through it - but you can as well later on install a DAW of some sorts and use the plugin version there.

 

[qwvb1111]

So you'd personally buy the helix but when someone else asks you what to get you'd tell them to buy something you've never even tried or own yourself haha, can you not see the irony here. Imagine they get one and find all these gotchas that you didnt know about, not a great recommendation at all honestly.

Think how many helix owners there are in the world, it doesn't take a genius to use one its not like you need to be a toan scientist or anything, there's a reason they're so popular. There's also a million resources for it because its been out so long, a quick google will get you the answers you need, again cant say the same for the Ampero.

fwiw I'm not dunking on the Ampero they look awesome but its just a weird recommendation when you haven't used one.

I understand that Line 6 Helix series has very high reputation around the world. Actually Helix LT was on my list too at the beginning.

I heard that effects of Helix series is one level higher than other modelers (which is important to me since I use chorus delay reverb overdrive a lot and I want them to be high quality), Line 6 is supporting their products very well since there are still update these days, it has XLR output which I think is essential for modelers nowadays (I even bought 2 XLR to TRS cables years ago to prep for a stereo modeler in the future, which is now)

I think the concerns of buying a Helix LT nowadays will be:

- is the modeling tech of it outdated a bit? Since it is 8 years old already
- will new modeler has better processing power (I assume aka DSP?) than a Helix, which lead to I can put more effects on a chain, or something that benefit from it?
- in terms of tonal quality, if there is modeler better than Helix and not expensive like a Fractal FM3, I may be changing my mind.

 

[Warmart]

Fwiw, it's not worth to spend big bucks only for playing at home with your monitors. Sure, I'd love to have Fractal quality at my hands but the cost doesn't make sense for a bedroom player :)

Worth???

It's "worth" now, and "sense"?

No, no, no, the correct mantra is, "Buy multiple and die happy!". And it's much cheaper than finding really good psychological treatment.

 

[[Nathan]]

You can get helix native as a plugin if you wanted helix on a computer as well. Sounds like the interface is probably the best route to go.

Spoiled for choice with plugins. Tons of free stuff, NDSP soldano would get those lead tones easy. Helix native is pricey but if you get it on sale it could be a winner. Heck even amplitube max on special has a lifetimes worth of stuff in there…. Yes annoying to use but the sounds are endless as a one stop shop.

Otherwise ml roots, nam are solid starters

 

[sashimi]

I used plugins and my computer for years. When I finally got an hx stomp (and later a helix LT) I started playing guitar way more often. Something about having to sit in front of a computer and load up the DAW is a total killer of spontaneous desire to play guitar. When I can just flip a couple switches to turn on a device and speakers without touching my computer, I will pick up the guitar and play daily.