I Gotta Wonder About Fractal's, er, "Perception"

[la szum]

Interactive displays are everywhere cause people are fucking lazy.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I’m hesitant to use the logical fallacy that is “let’s see you do better” (mainly because it’s horrendously overused at TOP) but I’d love to see a mockup of what a UI for Fractal would be, that includes both the breadth of flexibility AND ease of use.

And what is “ease of use”? It’s different than “intuitive”.

Yeah, the TMP is super easy in a Fisher-Price My First Modeler way. But it doesn’t remotely have the flexibility Fractal does. And that’s okay, not everyone’s looking for that. But it also doesn’t mean FAS deserves the ire over it either.

Deep as a thimble

 

[la szum]

"I want it all, and I want it brought right to me, and I don't want to have to earn any of it."

 

[JiveTurkey]

"I want it all, and I want it brought right to me, and I don't want to have to earn any of it."

To be fair; there is a bit of wiggle room between "I don't want to earn any of it!" and assigning foot controllers on the unit

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

"I want it all, and I want it brought right to me, and I don't want to have to earn any of it."

Except folks are finding all that they need in other packages that work better for them?

 

[la szum]

"I am an hard worker, but I ain't no masochist!"

 

[Lysander]

Yeah, the TMP is super easy in a Fisher-Price My First Modeler way. But it doesn’t remotely have the flexibility Fractal does. And that’s okay, not everyone’s looking for that. But it also doesn’t mean FAS deserves the ire over it either.

The thing is, in my experience, the problem is not so much the underlying complexity. When i had a FM3 i found everything took an extra unintuitive click, randomly switching though panel sections (wait, do i click the Value encoder? Enter? Edit?), or input behavior was inconsistent across pages. There's a learning curve to everything but, if you constantly fight the UI, that's a UI issue.

There's a reason why everyone relies on Axe-Edit; i know people who are unable to use their gear without it.

IMHO there's a lot that Fractal could do to improve the UX without even modifying the current hardware setup. I absolutely loved the box otherwise.

 

[JiveTurkey]

The thing is, in my experience, the problem is not so much the underlying complexity. When i had a FM3 i found everything took an extra unintuitive click, randomly switching though panel sections (wait, do i click the Value encoder? Enter? Edit?), or input behavior was inconsistent across pages. There's a learning curve to everything but, if you constantly fight the UI, that's a UI issue.

There's a reason why everyone relies on Axe-Edit; i know people who are unable to use their gear without it.

IMHO there's a lot that Fractal could do to improve the UX without even modifying the current hardware setup. I absolutely loved the box otherwise.

Spoiler: Abandon all hope

button consistency from one environment to the next

 

[paisleywookiee]

The thing is, in my experience, the problem is not so much the underlying complexity. When i had a FM3 i found everything took an extra unintuitive click, randomly switching though panel sections (wait, do i click the Value encoder? Enter? Edit?), or input behavior was inconsistent across pages. There's a learning curve to everything but, if you constantly fight the UI, that's a UI issue.

There's a reason why everyone relies on Axe-Edit; i know people who are unable to use their gear without it.

IMHO there's a lot that Fractal could do to improve the UX without even modifying the current hardware setup. I absolutely loved the box otherwise.

Oh I don’t think it’s infallible either. Always room for improvement. But it is learnable, IMO. Whether the value is there for people to want to do that is up to them. It’s not like there aren’t very viable alternatives now.

 

[Frodebro]

Oh I don’t think it’s infallible either. Always room for improvement. But it is learnable, IMO. Whether the value is there for people to want to do that is up to them. It’s not like there aren’t very viable alternatives now.

I have no problem scooting around on the front panel now. I started with the editor, and once I was familiar with how everything was grouped there it mostly translated straight over.

 

[Orvillain]

And last, the pot-shots that people take about the graphs. FFS people, it's simply the way a guy like Cliff can show us, in an objective manner, that his products match closer to the item he's modelling, than the competition. Makes perfect sense he would do that, especially given how hard it is to agree on accuracy, with just our ears.

Anti-graph is pro-homeopathy.

 

[laxu]

I agree with your overall assessment of the comparison except with that TL;DR comment. In a way you kind of prove yourself wrong. If you have to ‘drill down’ too far then the UI *is* a legitimate problem for whoever you can say ‘just isn’t doing it right’. A lot of us have been using Fractal for so long we take for granted just how much of a really complex and slowly morphing system it is! We finally speak Fractal so it isn’t hard for us to lose patience with the lost tourist blocking sidewalks of Ampsimville.

I think any of the complex modelers will be a headscratcher for people who have never used something like this. You have to learn about micing cabs, scenes, presets, figuring out what output systems to use and a whole lot of other stuff that you don't deal with in a real world rig. Configuring Fractal's footswitching alone is quite complex compared to a pre-chewed system like what Helix offers.

What is often not said is that Axe-Edit is genuinely good in many ways. I built a preset completely from scratch yesterday, and the Quick Build feature made it really easy to get all the blocks I wanted in there in no time. By comparison, it took me all day to wire up my complex pedalboard. Scene Manager is another good tool for quickly making sure you have the right channels in all your blocks in each scene.

But there's still a lot of stuff that are not easy to understand even for seasoned Fractal users and require referring to the blocks guide or wiki. Some fx params not even in the advanced menus will be very foreign to people used to pedals or even other multifx. Overall the whole Controllers section is stuff that synth players would be comfortable using, but 95% of guitarists will ignore and never use.

All that combined with the onboard UI does give Fractal a reputation as being more difficult than the competition, even though that isn't necessarily true for the overall user experience - which is Axe-Edit for most. It generally takes me less time to get good results out of Dyna-Cabs than from Helix's cab sims and the Amp block "authentic" view makes it easy to use.

I hope Fractal can turn that reputation around with whatever they make for next gen.

 

[sleewell]

Cater to the bottom-feeders. What could go wrong??

Lol me buying one. There goes the neighborhood.


Luddite or idiot or whatever I am I love a big screen. Call me whatever you want but a dumbass like me would be more interested in buying one if they had a big screen and thus were easier to tweak on the fly.

Are we really saying the purists or extreme fan bois would be turned off by this? Or is it just something they are defending to be more in the clique?

 

[BenIfin]

Gonna say it ....... i.m.o ....... as TOP is somewhat anti-Fractal ..... I am of the view that TGF is somewhat pro-Fractal ... just sayin'

 

[Orvillain]

that negativity doesn't seem justified

It really isn't justified, no.

I just spent the other day working with the Axe3 hardware exclusively. In terms of putting together a chain with some pre effects, an amp, some post effects, and then an output ... it really isn't that different to using a Helix. I don't care how many Laxu armies you throw at me, I just don't accept that for the n00biest of n00b experiences that you could ever squeeze into a bottle and sell to n00bs.... that it is particularly difficult to use. It isn't.

Where it gets difficult to use is the advanced stuff - modifiers, midi assignments, foot controller setup, performance parameters, stuff like that.

I will say that doing cleverer advanced splits and routing and re-arranging the order of blocks and things like that ... that is a lot more tricky on the Axe III than the Helix. Helix allows me to select a block and click into a "move" mode, and I cannot find that function in the main layout edit panel. I know there are move left/right functions in the "Tools" sub panel... but that functionality should really be front and centre in my opinion.

 

[ian_dissonance]

Gonna say it ....... i.m.o ....... as TOP is somewhat anti-Fractal ..... I am of the view that TGF is somewhat pro-Fractal ... just sayin'

Maybe, but being “anti” a guitar hardware device is a really silly thing to think about in general.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Gonna say it ....... i.m.o ....... as TOP is somewhat anti-Fractal ..... I am of the view that TGF is somewhat pro-Fractal ... just sayin'

well there was a time when TOP was VERY pro Fractal

 

[duzie]

We shouldn’t live in the past .
Live in the here and now

 

[Achilles]

Are we really saying the purists or extreme fan bois would be turned off by this? Or is it just something they are defending to be more in the clique?

Probably a little bit of both. I don't think anyone is asking for a touch screen to replace all, or anywhere near the depths of the functionality of a Fractal unit. But wouldn't it be nice to have the most often used functionalities/commands/etc. be on a screen activated by finger alone?

I think the graphs joke started cause it's a weird defense mechanism to try to prove a point in a discussion.

Joe: I like unit B. It sounds so much more pleasing in the upper end to my ears.
Sam: But this graphs shows the upper end response of B is inferior to unit A.
Joe:

 

[Orvillain]

Are we really saying the purists or extreme fan bois would be turned off by this? Or is it just something they are defending to be more in the clique?

I wouldn't be against a touchscreen. But I'm not pining for one.