Fractal Talk

[norminal]

CabLab4 is such a puzzling missed opportunity for FAS.

Pretty much every other IR loader/blender allows exporting to WAV its universal at this point.

I suspected they are paranoid about piracy..

Yep.

The FAS response to that was that its illegal etc etc

Yeah, that was a response to my post about the “producer scenario.”

And why would I buy it if it’s already in the Axe-FX III? To use in a DAW? I see no use for it outside of using in a studio environment. So I make a mix of Dyna-Cab IR’s. Then what? Export it for use in my Axe-FX? They’re already in the Axe-FX. Do I have to purchase the Dyna-Cab packs if I already have an Axe-FX?

 

[JiveTurkey]

I actually asked about this the other day and assumed it was a piracy thing as well. Would be cool if it was a possibility.

 

[[Nathan]]

I fully respect they can do whatever the heck they want and its commendable that they dont need to bow down to anyone else and just create products for their closed circle of users.... But if the "only" reason they don't add wav export and the other creature comfort features is out of fear of piracy then I feel like its a big missed opportunity. To me the prospect of having a monstrous user base to then upsell dynacab packs far outweighs a niche userbase with no export button (you can just download a reaper script or spend 3 seconds running a sample through the plugins if you were motivated to export the IR anyway).

I know I'm harping on about it but I hope this is all received as constructive criticism. Totally happy to hear a "we hear you but we dont care" response haha, it is what it is at that point. From a DAW/Plugins point of view I feel we're in the age of endless solutions so ultimately we'll use whatever's convenient/sounds good/cost effective, so if this fits great, if not we'll just use other things (once again not in a bitter way I'm just being factual etc).

 

[norminal]

I fully respect they can do whatever the heck they want and its commendable that they dont need to bow down to anyone else and just create products for their closed circle of users.... But if the "only" reason they don't add wav export and the other creature comfort features is out of fear of piracy then I feel like its a big missed opportunity. To me the prospect of having a monstrous user base to then upsell dynacab packs far outweighs a niche userbase with no export button (you can just download a reaper script or spend 3 seconds running a sample through the plugins if you were motivated to export the IR anyway).

I know I'm harping on about it but I hope this is all received as constructive criticism. Totally happy to hear a "we hear you but we dont care" response haha, it is what it is at that point. From a DAW/Plugins point of view I feel we're in the age of endless solutions so ultimately we'll use whatever's convenient/sounds good/cost effective, so if this fits great, if not we'll just use other things (once again not in a bitter way I'm just being factual etc).

Agree. And the benefits of using Dyna-Cab with Cab Lab 4 over the hardware are marginal.

There are probably hundreds of thousands of modeler users who use WAV that could be a potential customer with this software, not to mention could ultimately end up with a Fractal modeler.

If there’s one thing I’ve learned, it’s that their marketing department is virtually non-existent.

 

[LP59]

If there’s one thing I’ve learned, it’s that their marketing department is virtually non-existent.

Virtually? It's probably Literally. FAS is a small outfit.

Someone mentioned that you can just run white noise through this plugin, do a capture of the IR and voila there's your own WAV export of it. The FAS response to that was that its illegal etc etc... man, so disappointing.

I know this is tangential to your larger point, but Matt only said it would violate the eula if you shared it. That implies that it's ok to do that for your personal use.

 

[yeky83]

There are probably hundreds of thousands of modeler users who use WAV that could be a potential customer

 

[norminal]

Ok, my numbers might be a little off.

 

[laxu]

CabLab4 is such a puzzling missed opportunity for FAS.
It seems like its specifically designed for someone who wants owns a FAS unit, isn't satisfied (for some reason) with dynacabs on the unit and wants to buy FAS cab packs to then only export them to a FAS unit... like how small is that market?

If your end game is not getting a tone into a FAS unit then how do you use these? Your only option is the plugin which one could argue is "fine" for today but that's not a smart way to go about things. Once you shoot out an IR in a modelled env like Dynacabs, having IR's in a universal WAV format makes way more sense for archiving/universal use reasons. Pretty much every other IR loader/blender allows exporting to WAV its universal at this point.

To me the whole setup of going hey world, checkout cablab4... its a great fully featured plugin for you all to use and if you love it so much go over to our store and start buying some cabs. A person goes oh wow this is cool and better than other free IR loaders, I WILL use this as my main now and might even pick up some packs in the future,.... but instead its like... oh wait I can't export anything, pass. Do they hate sales or something?

I suspected they are paranoid about piracy... its 2023, noone is short of IRs or apps like Amplitube5, Mikko2, AmpHub, Wall of Sound, Celestion etc etc to shootout your own virtual mic IRs... its all been done already, who do they think is out there waiting to buy and rip all of their cab packs? But yes I see the reason they've crippled CabLab4 is because of piracy concerns. Someone mentioned that you can just run white noise through this plugin, do a capture of the IR and voila there's your own WAV export of it. The FAS response to that was that its illegal etc etc... man, so disappointing.

I know I'm one guy but would have switched over from NadIR to CabLab4 in a heartbeat if it had the below features. And over time I would have picked up a bunch of their dynacab packs, but I guess it's not the kind of customer they want and I'll just continue on using what I have access to now.

- Can't export .wavs to be used universally
- Can't easily manage existing IR's (have to add them one by one)
- Panning per IR
- Master Output to compensate all IRs in the DAW/Session

View attachment 11971

While I completely agree, I'd like to point to the word "share" in that screenshot. There is nothing illegal about making IRs for your own use. Only if you share them with others, whether money is involved or not.

There is nothing Fractal can do to make it impossible to make IRs using a DAW and the Cab Lab plugin. Providing the ability to do that without inconvenience of setting up sweeps and deconvolving files, right in the plugin or standalone app would be great, because we can then use those IRs with whatever modeler.

This would open up Dyna-Cabs to a much wider range of users, whether they use a Helix or QC or Strymon Iridium etc. They won't have the adjustability Fractal hardware offers, but they could enjoy their personal mixes, or maybe import Cab Lab sessions from someone else and then export that to IRs as long as they also own the Dyna-Cabs/IRs used.

Since Cab Lab 4 is free software, it's more likely that pirates are going to figure out how to pirate the actual Dyna-Cab files than trade in IRs made of them. The actual pirates who crack software and share it online are in it largely for the challenge and clout (being first to crack a software and put it online). The people who then download this are not the ones who would buy the product in the first place.

 

[[Nathan]]

While I completely agree, I'd like to point to the word "share" in that screenshot. There is nothing illegal about making IRs for your own use. Only if you share them with others, whether money is involved or not.

There is nothing Fractal can do to make it impossible to make IRs using a DAW and the Cab Lab plugin. Providing the ability to do that without inconvenience of setting up sweeps and deconvolving files, right in the plugin or standalone app would be great, because we can then use those IRs with whatever modeler.

This would open up Dyna-Cabs to a much wider range of users, whether they use a Helix or QC or Strymon Iridium etc. They won't have the adjustability Fractal hardware offers, but they could enjoy their personal mixes, or maybe import Cab Lab sessions from someone else and then export that to IRs as long as they also own the Dyna-Cabs/IRs used.

Since Cab Lab 4 is free software, it's more likely that pirates are going to figure out how to pirate the actual Dyna-Cab files than trade in IRs made of them. The actual pirates who crack software and share it online are in it largely for the challenge and clout (being first to crack a software and put it online). The people who then download this are not the ones who would buy the product in the first place.

I get the vibe they are totally happy with a smaller userbase on cablab4, its the only thing that makes sense.... less complaints maybe?
If they wanted widespread adoption and tons of eyeballs on potential DynaCab purchases then its pretty obvious what needs to be done.

And yeah I "can" do that method to export IRs but why would I start snapping up Dynacab packs at $29 a pop to have to use a manual method to extract the IR for later use if I need it. Just add the export to WAV button there and I'm already 50% sold in using CabLab4 and on my way to buying packs... without it, it's a hard no when I have other software which can do that already.

I'll say it again, if they added the creature comforts listed in this thread there's some crazy good potential on the table for them with cablab4 and dynacab sales. In its current form I imagine it'll be skipped by the wider community, but maybe thats the intention (FAS users only).

 

[laxu]

I get the vibe they are totally happy with a smaller userbase on cablab4, its the only thing that makes sense.... less complaints maybe?
If they wanted widespread adoption and tons of eyeballs on potential DynaCab purchases then its pretty obvious what needs to be done.

And yeah I "can" do that method to export IRs but why would I start snapping up Dynacab packs at $29 a pop to have to use a manual method to extract the IR for later use if I need it. Just add the export to WAV button there and I'm already 50% sold in using CabLab4 and on my way to buying packs... without it, it's a hard no when I have other software which can do that already.

I'll say it again, if they added the creature comforts listed in this thread there's some crazy good potential on the table for them with cablab4 and dynacab sales. In its current form I imagine it'll be skipped by the wider community, but maybe thats the intention (FAS users only).

When I first read about Cab Lab I actually joined the public beta for getting cabs at a discount and reporting issues, but I so far haven't actually bothered buying the cabs, because the software doesn't do what I thought it would.

If I could export IRs in WAV out of it easily, I would be very interested. But in its current form, I could just as well make those same IRs using my Axe-Fx 3 if I can be bothered to set it up. Cab Lab doesn't offer me a convenient way of doing it.

 

[DLC86]

I personally only use fractal hardware since a few years, and in the DAW I can load the cab-lab plugin, so I'm probably the perfect audience for that, but despite that I agree that the wav export would be handy and could be what might attract a lot more users, since pretty much all similar plugins offer it.

I could just as well make those same IRs using my Axe-Fx 3

That's not 100% true though, there are 2 more mics per cab (and more to come probably) and the space where you can virtually move the mic is much wider.
On the hardware it's basically a plane 24cm long and half speaker wide, while in cab-lab it's a cylinder 31 cm long and wide as the whole speaker. A lot more spots to work with.

 

[laxu]

That's not 100% true though, there are 2 more mics per cab (and more to come probably) and the space where you can virtually move the mic is much wider.
On the hardware it's basically a plane 24cm long and half speaker wide, while in cab-lab it's a cylinder 31 cm long and wide as the whole speaker. A lot more spots to work with.

Those features don't really move the needle for me at all. I would expect that the IRs picked for the Axe-Fx Dyna-Cabs are already the "best part of the cone" so to speak. 4 mics is enough for most things. 24 vs 31 cm does not mean you can get e.g a room mic setup out of the Cab Lab 4 so not a big deal either.

Things like IR export and stereo mixing would do more for me than just extra features on the Dyna-Cabs.

 

[Rock Chalk]

Plus I think you'll need Cab Lab if you plan on trying out any Third-Party Dyna-Cabs.

 

[Rock Chalk]

Why sad @Mongillo19 , Cab Lab is free?

 

[Mongillo19]

Why sad @Mongillo19 , Cab Lab is free?

I don't like the UI on Cab Lab at all and would much rather just be able to load 3rd party DynaCabs onto the Axe Fx and work from their.

 

[Rock Chalk]

I don't like the UI on Cab Lab at all and would much rather just be able to load 3rd party DynaCabs onto the Axe Fx and work from their.

Wow....CabLab looks to be a lot easier to work than the front panel, no?

Edit: Besides that, I don't think there's room for more Dyna-Cabs on the hardware....at least that's how I understand it.

 

[Mongillo19]

Wow....CabLab looks to be a lot easier to work than the front panel, no?

Edit: Besides that, I don't think there's room for more Dyna-Cabs on the hardware....at least that's how I understand it.

Maybe but I prefer just editing on the unit and getting a live sound, not having to worry about saving a IR, realizing I don't like it after all, firing up cab lab again, etc.

Just doesn't do it for me

 

[[Nathan]]

Can you live preview your axefx tone inside of cab lab or do have to do it separately and export? If you can’t do it live then that’s also another barrier for use because the front panel/axe edit is “live”.

I guess you’d have to record a snippet of your tone in your daw with no cab, fire up cab lab, audition sounds, export the syx, transfer to the axefx…. That’s a lot of steps as well, you’d just use the stuff on board

Also what’s stopping more dynacabs on the unit I thought there was plenty of horsepower in the axe3, is it memory or something else?

 

[TSJMajesty]

Did you look at the product page?

Cab Lab 4 IR Mixer and Tools – Fractal Audio Systems

www.fractalaudio.com

"In fact, the DynaCab system in Cab-Lab 4 offers even more resolution and flexibility than our hardware products, with 360° of placement at variable distances."

Why would 360° make a difference? Isn't the left half of a speaker going to sound the same as the opposite half?

Seems to me, more flexibility would mean being able to change the axis of the mic.

 

[eggpl@nt]

"In fact, the DynaCab system in Cab-Lab 4 offers even more resolution and flexibility than our hardware products, with 360° of placement at variable distances."

Why would 360° make a difference? Isn't the left half of a speaker going to sound the same as the opposite half?

Seems to me, more flexibility would mean being able to change the axis of the mic.

I've definitely gotten interesting tonal shifts from rotating along a specific radius from the center. Whether that's because of the speaker itself or interaction from other speakers in the cab, I don't know in this case (e.g. maybe Cliff disconnected neighboring speakers to limit interplay), but that feature definitely expands the palette of tones. I think Leon demonstrates this in his video.