Fractal Talk

[jellodog]

it’s precisely the reason why I have a fractal unit sat on my desk that doesn’t get used because other stuff is faster and more convenient.

Of course. We live different lives. You're recording stuff all the time, have everything setup for constant use; and you're a professional. I just play for personal enjoyment and don't bother recording anymore. I can't remember the last time I opened Logic. Totally makes sense for you!

I also use my computer most days for 12 hours or more, so want to get away from it.

 

[la szum]

Faster and more convenient is the slow death march of humanity.

It also leads to entitled humans who are impatient and unrealistic about what they should
expect from the world around them 24/7---i.e., "I wanted it yesterday, and I didn't want to have
to work for it then or now to get it."

Resist with all your might last of the people peoples!!!

Not judging. Just observin' and sayin'.

 

[la szum]

Of course. We live different lives. You're recording stuff all the time, have everything setup for constant use; and you're a professional. I just play for personal enjoyment and don't bother recording anymore. I can't remember the last time I opened Logic. Totally makes sense for you!

I also use my computer most days for 12 hours or more, so want to get away from it.

As consumers we are all toxic narcissists. Wanting what we want for our own reasons, regardless of the
implications for other consumers, or the creators of what we are consuming.

Makes me wonder what Fractals numbers are. I bet the home player is their largest source of revenue,
and by a quite significant margin.

 

[jellodog]

Not judging. Just observin' and sayin'.

 

[laxu]

Makes me wonder what Fractals numbers are. I bet the home player is their largest source of revenue,
and by a quite significant margin.

I'd expect that is the largest number for any guitar gear maker.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Faster and more convenient is the slow death march of humanity.

May as well get the soldering iron out and start building amps if speed and convenience is such a hinderance.

The whole purpose of me using digital gear is for speed and convenience. If I have amps and load boxes and other gear, then I really want the Fractal to integrate as seamlessly as possible and offer as much as it can. If the quickest way of using it is reamping tracks one at a time, why would I reach for it instead of a real amp and load box or plugin?

I basically use mine for noodling around on amps I’m curious about or no longer own, or for digitally modding existing amps without sending 500V DC through my nuts.

I really like what it can do but it seems such a waste to neglect all the other ways the same tech could be used. I’m certainly not a niche or specialist case - it’s exactly why other companies repurpose their same emulations into plugins and smaller pedals.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I take Cliff at face value when he says he’s concerned about his IP and that plug-in capabilities undermine that market significantly for Fractal Audio

If I owned the company, I would hope I would have the freedom to make those kind of decisions for my firm. So far so good.

same goes for Eventide, UAD, TC, Line 6, Strymon etc too, Cliff isn’t alone in having to protect his work.

There are ways of spreading it out as well as keeping it locked/protected. I don’t mind using some proprietary HW as a dongle, or even smaller form factor HW units that are designed to do more specific tasks.

Doesn’t really need to be as black and white as “plugin=piracy=apocolypse”. I’d like to think that the Fractal products have way more value than what a plugin on its own could offer - I’m sure that’s how many other companies see it. A huge number of Fractal’s market would buy the HW regardless of whether they could pirate the plugins for free - they’d want the features, I/O, stability, updates, support of the HW.

We’re even at a point now where people are making ToneX/NAM etc models of Fractal and having a crummy experience of it, totally missing what Fractals about.

 

[fretworn]

same goes for Eventide, UAD, TC, Line 6, Strymon etc too, Cliff isn’t alone in having to protect his work.

There are ways of spreading it out as well as keeping it locked/protected. I don’t mind using some proprietary HW as a dongle, or even smaller form factor HW units that are designed to do more specific tasks.

Doesn’t really need to be as black and white as “plugin=piracy=apocolypse”. I’d like to think that the Fractal products have way more value than what a plugin on its own could offer - I’m sure that’s how many other companies see it. A huge number of Fractal’s market would buy the HW regardless of whether they could pirate the plugins for free - they’d want the features, I/O, stability, updates, support of the HW.

We’re even at a point now where people are making ToneX/NAM etc models of Fractal and having a crummy experience of it, totally missing what Fractals about.

Would you feel the same way if the software plug-in sold for pretty much the same as the hardware?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Would you feel the same way if the software plug-in sold for pretty much the same as the hardware?

if there was good validation for it, then yes. I think it would be incredibly unrealistic for that to be the case, at least in a kind 1:1 form. I'd happily pay for an FM-3 just to be able to use an included plugin, having some HW at least retains some resale value and offers features and useage outside of merely being a £1000+ plugin.

Or I'd happily pay £150-200 for a couple of specific amp sims/fx at a time, provided they were models I wanted and had improved UI's and features well suited to a plugin format. That could easily work out to MUCH more than the cost of HW if a user was to buy absolutely everything Fractal makes if it were spread across different plugins. I'd love to have different channels and modes contained within the same amp model, with a proper UI, and then all the extras Fractal offer with tweaking and modding.

 

[Stone]

FM9 ---> FM Edit ---> and DAW its all I require
Works for me

 

[la szum]

View attachment 10158

I have a Teenage Son, trust me I have heard it all before.

If I ever get a tombstone and he is in charge of what's on it I am betting he
will request,

"Here lies he who was not criticizing, but just making observations."

 

[2112]

A big advantage of a "FAS native" style plugin would be convenient reamping. That alone would make it extremely valuable.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Of all the peer pressure requests that stay floating around; this is certainly up towards the top. After the FM0, of course

 

[Orvillain]

Honestly, in the current climate, Fractal are leaving a fair bit of money on the table. With very little investment, they could absolutely clean house when it comes to amp sim plugins. Testing a reverb plugin isn't going to get you the sales research data you're looking for, because reverb plugins are not amp plugins. The target userbase and customer profiles aren't the same.

IMO.

 

[Orvillain]

Would you feel the same way if the software plug-in sold for pretty much the same as the hardware?

Honestly, they'd be better off kicking off a subscription service where you pay your $10 a month, and get access to all of the amps that Fractal offer.

Or you monetize each individual amplifier at a $49 price point, and offer people bundle deals.

 

[laxu]

Honestly, in the current climate, Fractal are leaving a fair bit of money on the table. With very little investment, they could absolutely clean house when it comes to amp sim plugins. Testing a reverb plugin isn't going to get you the sales research data you're looking for, because reverb plugins are not amp plugins. The target userbase and customer profiles aren't the same.

IMO.

That Fractal Reverb plugin is also very good but they do very little to promote it that people forget it even exists. Marketing is honestly not the company's strong suit when the Axe-Fx 3 product page still compares it to the previous gen models instead of trying to highlight what makes it great now.

For amp sim plugins there's so much they could do. Stuff all the Marshall Superlead variants in one plugin, stuff all the Mesa Mark series in one plugin, make a "high gain variety pack" etc.

That said, I'm starting to wonder if the amp sim plugin market is getting oversaturated. ML Sound Lab just put out a Peavey 5150/6150 plugin, so they now offer 21 different amp sim plugins. NeuralDSP has 18. Both brands really could use a "suite" style plugin that can combine them together.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

That Fractal Reverb plugin is also very good but they do very little to promote it that people forget it even exists. Marketing is honestly not the company's strong suit when the Axe-Fx 3 product page still compares it to the previous gen models instead of trying to highlight what makes it great now.

For amp sim plugins there's so much they could do. Stuff all the Marshall Superlead variants in one plugin, stuff all the Mesa Mark series in one plugin, make a "high gain variety pack" etc.

That said, I'm starting to wonder if the amp sim plugin market is getting oversaturated. ML Sound Lab just put out a Peavey 5150/6150 plugin, so they now offer 21 different amp sim plugins. NeuralDSP has 18. Both brands really could use a "suite" style plugin that can combine them together.

I certainly forget it exists, reverb is something I already feel I have well covered with other plugins. The “selling point” of the reverbs to me was “studio quality reverbs in a guitar modeller”. IMO it’s bringing the convenience FROM the studio to the modeller, rather than something like amps which is bringing the convenience of HW TO the studio.

Looked again and it’s priced well for what it is.

Definitely think we’re approaching some kind of “singularity” with modelling plugins, Fractal still have a lot of unique things to bring to the table with how you can mod and tinker and alter impedance curves etc. Despite the race to the bottom with pricing, I think there’s still enough of a business model there if things are packaged and presented properly. €100 ish for a collection of curated gear with a quick and direct workflow and good UI.

I struggle to see NDSP doing a suite plugin because they have such a focus on UI, and it would be extremely messy to do. MAYBE they’d release a Cortex Native plugin at some stage, I can’t really see them doing an “Amplitube” style plugin. I think they’d rather have a more cluttered plugin folder and require chaining plugins together as opposed to one big but messy plugin. I’ve thought about this, and I agree with them. A suite plugin still may require mixing and matching with other brands - say if you want to use a particular tuner/OD/amp/cab sim/reverb etc. That’s the fun of a DAW and plugin environment. A suite makes sense and solves some problems, but it also creates others. I’m not sure the net gain is worth it

 

[Orvillain]

That Fractal Reverb plugin is also very good but they do very little to promote it that people forget it even exists. Marketing is honestly not the company's strong suit when the Axe-Fx 3 product page still compares it to the previous gen models instead of trying to highlight what makes it great now.

For amp sim plugins there's so much they could do. Stuff all the Marshall Superlead variants in one plugin, stuff all the Mesa Mark series in one plugin, make a "high gain variety pack" etc.

That said, I'm starting to wonder if the amp sim plugin market is getting oversaturated. ML Sound Lab just put out a Peavey 5150/6150 plugin, so they now offer 21 different amp sim plugins. NeuralDSP has 18. Both brands really could use a "suite" style plugin that can combine them together.

Agreed on all points.

Thinking about what I'd personally like to see from Fractal.... it isn't really software tbh. I mean, I'd probably get involved if they went that way, and I think a lot of people would.... but really I'd like to see them begin to make pedals. A super swish dual delay pedal with selectable algorithms for each slot, akin to Timeline/DD500/Echosystem, etc etc. Same thing for reverbs.

Basically whatever they did, if they played it right, they could really be a mass market contender. But I honestly don't think that is what they want. I think they want to remain a high-class boutique modeller company. I just don't know how much room there is to go in that space, the Axe FX III is pretty damn complete at this point. What could they really add to it to justify an Axe FX IV???

If they did some amp pedals (which seem all the rage right now) I think they'd make a pretty big dent.

 

[SillyOctpuss]

Honestly, they'd be better off kicking off a subscription service where you pay your $10 a month, and get access to all of the amps that Fractal offer.

Or you monetize each individual amplifier at a $49 price point, and offer people bundle deals.

You've just listed one of the few subscriptions I'd actually pay for.

 

[SillyOctpuss]

Thinking about what I'd personally like to see from Fractal.... it isn't really software tbh. I mean, I'd probably get involved if they went that way, and I think a lot of people would.... but really I'd like to see them begin to make pedals. A super swish dual delay pedal with selectable algorithms for each slot, akin to Timeline/DD500/Echosystem, etc etc. Same thing for reverbs.