Fractal Talk

FracKing said:
Cliff is younger than me, but around age 55 is when I started to really get tired of solving problems all day long, so I would get into a IV before that age :)

But if a truly impressive new CPU is not coming quickly enough, I might just release a Mark III or Mark IV with tons more memory and call it a life -- maybe do some less stressful projects on the side, like adding more goodies to it ;)

If he wants to unleash less restricted algorithms, he might also give the option of using just one amp block.

In any case, I pray he doesn't have to refactor so much code to a new gen or chip again -- I don't see that happening after age 55, unless your name happens to be Cliff...? ;)
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Just going out on a limb but I think Cliff is more likely to get tired of people , and complaints and going on forums before he is solving problems , creation of new algorithms is probably the fun part of the job
 
Mongillo19 said:
Not to turn this into a "Axe IV when" but I can see the IV being the last iteration (at least with Cliff leading the charge).

As far as tone and options are concerned, the III could halt updates today and it would be future proof imo. But that could probably have been said 2 years ago lol
Click to expand...
To me the real issue Fractal is going to battle is that the budget stuff gets better and better, and eventually their amp modeling will also be "good enough". If more products like these adopt things like captures for amp modeling at Tonex/NAM quality levels, then we might end up in a situation where people settle for "good enough" rather than paying a lot more for "the best", because "good enough" now sounds really good already, even for fx.

When people were asking "should I get a used Axe-Fx 2 or buy a new FM3" it's honestly easy to say "buy the FM3, it's nicer to operate and costs similar money". I think with the current gen Fractal it's going to be even easier to point to the older gen when people are looking to save some money, because the way it sounds is not an issue, and usability - as much as I complain about it - is at least not the pain in the ass that the Axe-Fx 2 was.

I feel like the tone quality can only get so much better until you hit a ceiling. Can Fractal squeeze out "even more realer" out of their next gen? Sure, but is it enough of a difference to sell people on the new gen, or is the new gen primarily about a better user experience because incremental amp modeling improvements are no longer a selling point?

I feel like the double click shortcuts on the hw UI, Dyna-Cabs, gapless switching and improved reverbs have been the only features that have made me excited for updates on this gen Fractal, and the amp modeling stuff no longer moves me one way or the other. Great, you went from excellent to even better, somehow.

On top of that is the hype cycle. Having a Friedman BE model was a big deal several years ago so everyone scrambled to add that to their modeler. Now the real amp is no longer "the thing" so nobody is asking for a BE Deluxe 100W model in their Fractal. In a similar manner the Revv Generator 120 MK3 was "the thing" for a while, we got it, and now it's no longer that interesting. People asking for more models are impossible to satisfy because even if you provide all their requested crap, they will find another one that is a "must have" somehow. If the Axe-Fx IV debuts with the same, already vast list of amp models, how would people react?
 
GTR37 said:
Just going out on a limb but I think Cliff is more likely to get tired of people , and complaints and going on forums before he is solving problems , creation of new algorithms is probably the fun part of the job
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm probably projecting a little...
A huge difference is probably the degree to which he masters things and how I have to look everything up... :p
But still, there's always things you have to actually research, both fun and a drag at times.
 
laxu said:
is it enough of a difference to sell people on the new gen [...]
Click to expand...
I don't think sales would be any worry.

It's now an advantage that people may suspect it would be the last gen in a historic run. You would be kind of crazy to not make sure you buy three flagship models to make sure you are safe, just in case the entire company collapses one day...
 
laxu said:
If the Axe-Fx IV debuts with the same, already vast list of amp models, how would people react?
Click to expand...

There are more UX improvements they can make that will get people excited. There's a lot of room for improvement in companion apps like the editor and I think people would react positively if there were significant UX improvements even if they amp model list remained the same. But does Cliff have interest in UX improvements? Seems like he gets more enjoyment from tinkering with amp modeling.
 
laxu said:
To me the real issue Fractal is going to battle is that the budget stuff gets better and better, and eventually their amp modeling will also be "good enough". If more products like these adopt things like captures for amp modeling at Tonex/NAM quality levels, then we might end up in a situation where people settle for "good enough" rather than paying a lot more for "the best", because "good enough" now sounds really good already, even for fx.

When people were asking "should I get a used Axe-Fx 2 or buy a new FM3" it's honestly easy to say "buy the FM3, it's nicer to operate and costs similar money". I think with the current gen Fractal it's going to be even easier to point to the older gen when people are looking to save some money, because the way it sounds is not an issue, and usability - as much as I complain about it - is at least not the pain in the ass that the Axe-Fx 2 was.

I feel like the tone quality can only get so much better until you hit a ceiling. Can Fractal squeeze out "even more realer" out of their next gen? Sure, but is it enough of a difference to sell people on the new gen, or is the new gen primarily about a better user experience because incremental amp modeling improvements are no longer a selling point?

I feel like the double click shortcuts on the hw UI, Dyna-Cabs, gapless switching and improved reverbs have been the only features that have made me excited for updates on this gen Fractal, and the amp modeling stuff no longer moves me one way or the other. Great, you went from excellent to even better, somehow.

On top of that is the hype cycle. Having a Friedman BE model was a big deal several years ago so everyone scrambled to add that to their modeler. Now the real amp is no longer "the thing" so nobody is asking for a BE Deluxe 100W model in their Fractal. In a similar manner the Revv Generator 120 MK3 was "the thing" for a while, we got it, and now it's no longer that interesting. People asking for more models are impossible to satisfy because even if you provide all their requested crap, they will find another one that is a "must have" somehow. If the Axe-Fx IV debuts with the same, already vast list of amp models, how would people react?
Click to expand...
No. The cheap stuff has been “good enough” for a long time. There are loads of expensive streamlined “you pay us more because we are plug-n-play” options (UA boxes). And yet Fractal still sells plenty. Because enough people have used it and discovered how much easier it is in the end to have all the options you need to actually get things to sound the exact way you want, even if it means a less-than-optimal UI. No other maker has shown any real interest in catching up with this level of control, much less ability to do it.
 
Something tells me Fractal Audio won't have a problem selling the Axe-Fx IV.........just a hunch.
biggrin.gif
 
laxu said:
If the Axe-Fx IV debuts with the same, already vast list of amp models, how would people react?
Click to expand...

Cars haven’t changed essentially in the past two decades (except for electric engines). That doesn’t keep people from buy new models.
 
yek said:
Cars haven’t changed essentially in the past two decades (except for electric engines). That doesn’t keep people from buy new models.
Click to expand...
I think the main things and reasons for and Axe4 would not be the amp modelling but things
Like new GUI
Storage and CPU to Dynacabs
For amp modelling if anything I would predict perhaps less models but the one model maybe having everything on one page for Example Dzl herb channel 2 , there would be the mid cut and the +/- switch all on the same page instead of seperate models
Cliff had mentioned current CPU constraints don’t allow that to be done but maybe in the future

For authenticity that would be another step fwd to have all switch and buttons on the front panel of the real amp to be available to the user
 
unix-guy said:
I seem to recall a post he made about why certain types of processors (possibly ARM, I don't recall) are sub-optimal for use.
Click to expand...
They are sub optimal for sure but the development rate of arm cores is so fast they are leaving everything else in the dust from a price to performance point of view. You still have to rebuild the libraries of algorithms to take advantage of it, but it's a one time cost. It will 100% happen, DSPs were the result of optimizing for limited processing powers but nobody is investing much on that anymore because simply isn't needed now. General purpose processors are way faster now and they keep getting better.
 
Spent the last couple days tracking a lot of guitars, re-dialing in a bunch of presets after the update. I may have been a bit dismissive towards Cyg 3.0 up front, there's a definite difference in the low end but it's hard to describe where/how. Once I had my monitors turned up a bit it was quite noticeable, doesn't seem to be quite as ear fatiguing either.

I know a trap I often fall into is dialing in my tones to be recording-ready since I'm sitting in the studio. The nature of that alone ends up eliminating some of the stuff that gets affected by updates, like hacking off all the hi's/low's before it even hits a DAW. I'm really trying to start my songs off now with a straight up 'amp sound' rather than hacking it up first. which is why I think I took notice more yesterday than previously.
 
I haven't used CabLab yet, but it seems to have two advantages from a certain standpoint...

- as these files are now coming from a server(?), the makers can add as many mics as they like; much more than you may want inside the unit.
But yeah, it would be preferable if you could export a bundle with your favorite mics to the unit.

- I suspect another part of it is copy protection to a degree. This is awesome for people like Justin (and FAS) who put in so much work, but sadly this may prevent the previous wish, maybe unless it is uploaded straight from CabLab? Yeah, it certainly seems feasible to me that a custom dyna IR pack could be uploaded by CabLab to the unit, preventing that pack being shared. Hm, I'm hereby forgetting you can save back-ups of things, so then you may have to include identifiers. Ever more hassle.
 
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