Fractal Talk

[jellodog]

In essence, I think this is the one thing that IK Multimedia got right with Amplitube 5:
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In this case, multi-faceted search with different types of grouping, or tagging would make more sense.

So you aren't forced to choose how to organise by just one facet for the models. Which means that you can have "order or group by manufacturer", "order or group by gain type", "order or group by era" etc., etc., yadda yadda. Everybody wins and there need be no more disagreements on how best to order.

 

[TubeStack]

What if I play death metal on a tweed?

 

[Orvillain]

In this case, multi-faceted search with different types of grouping, or tagging would make more sense.

So you don't need to choose how to organise by just one facet. Which means that you can have "order or group by manufacturer", "order or group by gain type", "order or group by era" etc., etc., yadda yadda.

Yeah agreed. I guess we're supposed to use the colours for our own custom grouping, but weirdly, I never have used them! Green doesn't mean anything to me other than delay pedal.

 

[Whizzinby]

So the EVH 5153 amps get grouped with the Fender combos then???

I think you guys are placing more importance on manufacturer than it needs to be honest. What matters is how the amps sound.

A huge majority of players sit down and want to play a “Marshall” or “Fender” or “Mesa” so it makes sense to have them grouped together, rather than having to scroll through 300 models trying to find each and every Marshall or Fender or Mesa on tap. Randomized amp names scattered across a list is just unnecessary.

Sort filters based on gain profile would be cool, but not as the primary list method imo. (Optional) It doesn’t have to be either/or though, so everyone can win.

 

[Orvillain]

A huge majority of players sit down and want to play a “Marshall” or “Fender” or “Mesa” so it makes sense to have them grouped together, rather than having to scroll through 300 models trying to find each and every Marshall or Fender or Mesa on tap. Randomized amp names scattered across a list is just unnecessary.

So do the EVH amps get grouped with the other Fender amps then?

Also, the current list isn't random. It is alphabetically sorted.

 

[laxu]

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Looks pretty consistent to me. I don't expect 100% consistency. I don't expect 100% "grouped" naming conventions.

I don't expect all Mesa amps to have Mesa in there... I don't expect all Marshall amps to have Brit in there. Why would Mesa be the one that gets "USA" and not Fender??? There are many debates and inconsistencies that would crop up, when it comes to naming amps.

I'd like to know what objective metrics you think exist in order to arrive at a set of names you think you'd be happy with; let along 10,000+ users being happy with them!

Fenders are a good example. You have a bunch of them right at the start...and then somewhere halfway up the list have Deluxe and Twin reverbs, and even further down a Super reverb and Vibrolux. Giving them a prefix would group them nicely together.

I was merely following the naming Fractal decided, but applies even themselves very inconsistently. Why isn't e.g "Recto1 Red" "USA Recto1 Red" when Mesa bass amps, Triaxis and Mark series are all "USA" prefixed? How come Triple Crown and Texas Star don't go there too?

The actual prefix doesn't really matter, it just needs to be applied consistently.

I can think of half a dozen things I care more about than this particular naming issue to be honest:

- Midi clock output
- Ability to assign modifiers to "Time" parameters even when they are tempo-sync'd to a note
- Dedicated "mono" audio blocks (Input 1 L, Input 1 R, Output 1 L, Output 1 R, etc etc.)
- The aforementioned "moving blocks around" issue that DLC86 brought up
- Ability to see the scene controllers at the same time as a selected block, in Axe-Edit
- Tool-tips throughout Axe Edit that tell us what advanced parameters do, and how we might use them to achieve a particular tone

Sure, and someone else will bring a different list of what is the most important. Everything on your list is a lot more complex work than taking the time to figure out a better naming for models. And it's just a tip of the iceberg of relatively easy tasks that could improve the experience.

 

[Sascha Franck]

In essence, I think this is the one thing that IK Multimedia got right with Amplitube 5:

To do it right for everyone: Add a tagging system and allow the user to filter amps by tags.

 

[GTR37]

So the EVH 5153 amps get grouped with the Fender combos then???

I think you guys are placing more importance on manufacturer than it needs to be honest. What matters is how the amps sound.

I know they don't have one, but for example, if Fractal added a Marshall Class 5 amp combo, I'd want it grouped with the other white-man-blues amps, not the fire breathing high-gainers, and not the vintage hard-rock amps of yesteryear. IMHO.

Or if they added a model of the High Gain Vox amps from the mid 2000's, I wouldn't really want it grouped with the AC-whatever Vox amps... because they sound nothing alike.

In essence, I think this is the one thing that IK Multimedia got right with Amplitube 5:
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This is really cool Ampero does that to
But your issue is going to come with what people believe EOB , Crunch , HiGain to be
Some like Rectos are obvious
But some would conside JCM 800 hi gain while others crunch
As we have seen the arguments about tapers I suspect this would end the same With complaints

 

[laxu]

Edit always brings up the edit menu for the selected block. There is never a situation where Edit functions as Enter.

Enter opens something everywhere else in the system. Thus it's intuitive to think pressing Enter in layout also opens the selected block for editing.

Layout grid is the only place where Edit button does what it says on the label. Reversing the functionality would change Edit to equal "Edit connections between blocks" which is basically what Enter does now. Then Enter = "Enter the block for editing".

 

[Whizzinby]

So do the EVH amps get grouped with the other Fender amps then?

They get grouped with EVH amps. This isn’t that difficult.

 

[Orvillain]

They get grouped with EVH amps. This isn’t that difficult.

But the manufacturer is Fender.

 

[Whizzinby]

Fenders are a good example. You have a bunch of them right at the start...and then somewhere halfway up the list have Deluxe and Twin reverbs, and even further down a Super reverb and Vibrolux. Giving them a prefix would group them nicely together.

I was merely following the naming Fractal decided, but applies even themselves very inconsistently. Why isn't e.g "Recto1 Red" "USA Recto1 Red" when Mesa bass amps, Triaxis and Mark series are all "USA" prefixed? How come Triple Crown and Texas Star don't go there too?

The actual prefix doesn't really matter, it just needs to be applied consistently.

Sticky this post!

 

[Whizzinby]

But the manufacturer is Fender.

If they group all the EVH amps with Fender I don’t give a shit, as long as they are grouped together consistently.

 

[Orvillain]

If they group all the EVH amps with Fender I don’t give a shit, as long as they are grouped together consistently.

That sounds bonkers to me. A bunch of clean to gritty amps grouped with fire breathing dragon amps? Makes no sense.

Like I said:

I'd like to know what objective metrics you think exist in order to arrive at a set of names you think you'd be happy with; let along 10,000+ users being happy with them!

 

[laxu]

If they group all the EVH amps with Fender I don’t give a shit, as long as they are grouped together consistently.

While I agree, I think the correct way would be a separate grouping because most people don't know EVH is a Fender brand.

 

[mbenigni]

But the manufacturer is Fender.

Call it "EVH xxx", or call it "Fender EVH xxx". (Or "USA EVH xxx" or whatever the legal department signs off on.) The point is, renaming amps is low-hanging fruit vs. implementing a metadata/ tagging/ filtering scheme. Categorizing amps based on gain is sketchy, too, since quality of gain isn't always an obvious scalar comparison (and gain controls are such that many amps overlap here.)

 

[Orvillain]

Call it "EVH xxx", or call it "Fender EVH xxx". The point is renaming amps is low-hanging fruit vs. implementing a metadata/ tagging/ filtering scheme. Categorizing amps based on gain is sketchy, too, since they overlap so much, and quality of gain isn't always an obvious scalar comparison.

I believe someone on the Fractal forum once said that amps are listed and referenced using their slot ID, rather than name string. So you'd change the names, but the positions in the lists wouldn't change. Your Fender EVH 5153 amps would still be at the front of the list, and your Twin Reverb would be towards the end of the list.

So... OK... change the list.

Oh fuck. Just broke everyone's presets, because the preset system is index based, not string based.

(I'm guessing there, but hopefully you see my point)

 

[Whizzinby]

While I agree, I think the correct way would be a separate grouping because most people don't know EVH is a Fender brand.

I agree too.

This isn’t that complicated. IMO

 

[mbenigni]

That sounds bonkers to me. A bunch of clean to gritty amps grouped with fire breathing dragon amps? Makes no sense.

It's a valid argument, but aren't you already tolerating this? E.g. clean channels of channel-switchers right next to crunch and lead channels?

 

[Orvillain]

It's a valid argument, but aren't you already tolerating this? E.g. clean channels of channel-switchers right next to crunch and lead channels?

Which makes total sense. Because they belong with that amp model.

If I want channel A to be my JVM Green set to a clean... and Channel B to be a crunch... Channel C to be a high-gain rhythm... and channel D to be a lead tone from the same amp... they're all grouped together and it becomes really easy to put together.

Very different scenario from putting all the bullshit combo amps next to the 100watter heads, just because they all have Marshall or Mesa written on the front of them.