Fractal Talk

Orvillain is very entrenched in the “fuck cushy UI”
No I'm not.

In my day job I am trying to get us to move away from this:
1706173703459.png


To this:
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Precisely because I know that a good UI (and it gets better with future BFD Player packs too!) is essential to people's workflow.

But it is about degrees. With complexity, you often lose choices on the experience side of things.
 
There’s an important takeaway here: UI development is all “devil in the details”. The pros and cons of a UI overhaul can’t really be examined at 12,000 feet. It’s all about the benefits and knock-on effects of small, individual changes.
Absolutely. In my day job as a web developer there's a lot of details that will either make the user's experience better or worse. It's sometimes a battle against the engineer mentality of "how it is easiest to program" when doing it right, so that the feature is easy for the user, takes more care and effort.

Sometimes you need to compromise due to budget or time. Something I worked on last year ended up not being 100% what I wanted simply because of the need to focus on getting the relevant features working, quirks in the architecture and not having the budget/time to fix everything.

UI/UX deals with a whole lot of nuance, but there's always things where there is only one better way to do it. I don't think anyone can argue against say a more consistent amp model naming scheme so manufacturers are grouped better.
 
Easily.

Group them based on gain range. I'd prefer that.

What say you?
Nah, that's arguing for more sort/filter options. Which would be very welcome too! Gain range, heads vs combos, low power vs high power, USA vs European made, simple vs complex controls...lots of criteria that could be applied.

Without a good naming scheme, the list of amps sorted by gain range would look extremely messy. Sorted by gain range and manufacturer (with consistent naming) would work out great.
 
Nah, that's arguing for more sort/filter options.
If you add more sort filter options, you potentially add needless complexity to the device. There is currently nothing in the UI (and presumably underlying engine in terms of meta-data and databasing?) in Axe-Edit and the HW to allow this kind of sorting. That is exactly the kind of feature creep I have to put shields up against every day! :rofl

In real-terms, the Axe FX III doesn't even have a sense of manufacturer. It has user-facing strings for the amp model name, and that is it.

"Okay cool. Add a meta-data system."

Which potentially leads to bloat, slows down amp model and channel loading because all of that information needs to be parsed when a model is instantiated, and breaks all of the gapless switching they've just spent a load of time building. Potentially anyway. Hard to say without knowing how the underlying engine and core allocation works.

I'd much prefer to solve that issue by running some user research and figuring out what people actually want - coz it might be that we're both entirely wrong in this.

But my ultimate point is, you can easily argue against your premise. From the perspective of "Oh shit, we can't use Manufacturer names in our models because we'll be sued into oblivion... okay... pseudo-ize them." ... from that perspective, the model naming scheme is already fairly consistent.

Consistency isn't the issue. Familiarity is.
 
I'd think for all that's been written about the UI, everyone continuously posting about it could have memorized every edit action from the front panel of an AxeFX by now.

That's what I've tried to do.

I think the UI is what it is because that's the way Cliff wants it to be. He seems to be the kind of guy that if he was really bothered by the UI he'd change it whenever there was a major model upgrade.

Like Drew said, I've gotten familiar with the front panel and am comfortable with it. Sure some things could be more convenient but it's not something I think about when actually using the unit, only when reading one of these threads.
 
No I'm not.

In my day job I am trying to get us to move away from this:
View attachment 17828

To this:
View attachment 17829


Precisely because I know that a good UI (and it gets better with future BFD Player packs too!) is essential to people's workflow.

But it is about degrees. With complexity, you often lose choices on the experience side of things.
Sorry, man. I didn't mean to (and expected that I had) put words in your mouth. I almost deleted that post (but I'd already garnished some precious "Likes" LOL.)

"With complexity, you often lose choices on the experience side of things."

This is often the case, but what I'm suggesting is that it doesn't have to be so. In my experience, a more intuitive UI can increase (for lack of better terminology) the "perceptual and interactive bandwidth" of a device, so that more and more complexity can be exposed without overwhelming the end-user (or, in some cases, the developers themselves.)

I fundamentally agree with the opinion expressed again and again, that there's nothing inherently wrong with the FAS UIs. In fact they're quite similar to hundreds of other products that have preceded them in this space (Roland, Digitech, etc. etc. etc.) But it's a double edged sword: the FAS products are so deep and so versatile that they expose a lot more controls than most of those competing products did. This is where a user might start to feel the need for a UI overhaul. Not because they want things dumbed down, but because a clean UI better facilitates increasingly deep and/or wide systems.
 
If you add more sort filter options, you potentially add needless complexity to the device. There is currently nothing in the UI (and presumably underlying engine in terms of meta-data and databasing?) in Axe-Edit and the HW to allow this kind of sorting. That is exactly the kind of feature creep I have to put shields up against every day! :rofl

In real-terms, the Axe FX III doesn't even have a sense of manufacturer. It has user-facing strings for the amp model name, and that is it.

"Okay cool. Add a meta-data system."

Which potentially leads to bloat, slows down amp model and channel loading because all of that information needs to be parsed when a model is instantiated, and breaks all of the gapless switching they've just spent a load of time building. Potentially anyway. Hard to say without knowing how the underlying engine and core allocation works.

I'd much prefer to solve that issue by running some user research and figuring out what people actually want - coz it might be that we're both entirely wrong in this.

But my ultimate point is, you can easily argue against your premise. From the perspective of "Oh shit, we can't use Manufacturer names in our models because we'll be sued into oblivion... okay... pseudo-ize them." ... from that perspective, the model naming scheme is already fairly consistent.

Consistency isn't the issue. Familiarity is.
Except the model naming scheme is not consistent, when e.g all Marshall models don't start with "Brit", Fender models are all over the place, Mesa models are not all "USA" and so on. That's the whole issue! Better naming has been requested a long time ago, going afaik as far back as Axe-Fx 2 at least.

Metadata systems can be kept totally separate so it has no bearing on loading models or channels, it only ever changes when new models are added. It only gets queried when a user selects a sort/filter option, no different from say searching for models by name in the amp or cab picker. Eats some storage of course, but we are not talking about something very complex to store, parse or query here - it doesn't necessarily need a database at all.
 
I'd think for all that's been written about the UI, everyone continuously posting about it could have memorized every edit action from the front panel of an AxeFX by now.
I certainly have, but I still get e.g Edit vs Enter wrong often enough because those swap function in the layout grid for no particularly good reason. Or similarly have to reorient myself with the various views operating in a different manner, or all the other inconsistencies.

People learn to use poorly designed user interfaces all the time and just live with it. That doesn't make those user experiences good.
 
Sure some things could be more convenient but it's not something I think about when actually using the unit, only when reading one of these threads.

Me too. I got to be super fast and comfortable with it, on both the FM3 and 9, to where I preferred it over the editor for general preset making and adjustments.

When I do think about it, it's more in a "I love Fractal and hope well for their future" kind of way. Like, I would like the devices to be competitive and appealing to a younger demographic.
 
"Okay cool. Add a meta-data system."

Which potentially leads to bloat, slows down amp model and channel loading because all of that information needs to be parsed when a model is instantiated, and breaks all of the gapless switching they've just spent a load of time building. Potentially anyway. Hard to say without knowing how the underlying engine and core allocation works.
I appreciate both yours and Laxu's points of view here. In general, I'm for keeping things simple wherever possible. On the other hand/ FWIW, tasks like processing metadata filters are trivial in terms of CPU overhead. The bigger issue is designing the presentation layer in such a way that it doesn't become more confusing for the end user, and defeat the purpose.

Consistency isn't the issue. Familiarity is.
I'll admit I'm not sufficiently familiar with my FM3 yet. (So not my hill to die on yet. :D) But in general, I think the point of consistency is to make familiarity easier to achieve (and retain.)
 
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No I'm not.

In my day job I am trying to get us to move away from this:
View attachment 17828

To this:
View attachment 17829


Precisely because I know that a good UI (and it gets better with future BFD Player packs too!) is essential to people's workflow.

But it is about degrees. With complexity, you often lose choices on the experience side of things.

I'd rather move the other way around. The upper version requires less clicks.
 
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