Fractal Talk

[mbenigni]

People learn to use poorly designed user interfaces all the time and just live with it. That doesn't make those user experiences good.

Can we start by talking about the fact that the controls for the tabs on top of the screen are the Page buttons at the bottom of all the other controls? Acknowledging that I'm a FAS noob and all, I still forget they exist half the time. It's just a weird layout decision.

But QC knobs don't precisely line up with on-screen controls and...

 

[mbenigni]

And here I was, thinking I was derailing the thread already...

Anyway:

NSFW NDSP

 

[laxu]

Can we start by talking about the fact that the controls for the tabs on top of the screen are the Page buttons at the bottom of all the other controls? Acknowledging that I'm a FAS noob and all, I still forget they exist half the time. It's just a weird layout decision.

It would definitely make the physical vs screen functions closer to each other if the page buttons were where the store/tempo buttons are, but at the same time they might be a little bit harder to reach.

You have to remember that basically everything on the current front panel dates back to the first gen Axe-Fx. So decisions from before 2006 (Axe-Fx Standard released) are still there today.

I get wanting to keep some continuity between the device generations so existing users find them familiar...but maybe they shouldn't have in this case.

 

[mbenigni]

It would definitely make the physical vs screen functions closer to each other if the page buttons were where the store/tempo buttons are, but at the same time they might be a little bit harder to reach.

You have to remember that basically everything on the current front panel dates back to the first gen Axe-Fx. So decisions from before 2006 (Axe-Fx Standard released) are still there today.

I get wanting to keep some continuity between the device generations so existing users find them familiar...but maybe they shouldn't have in this case.

Yeah, I assumed there was some kind of "legacy" backstory involved in this. And perhaps a corresponding cost to revisit board layouts, etc. Then again, 2006 is a long time to go without fixing a problem. Could be as simple as moving those tab graphics to the bottom of the screen, to correspond with the Page button placement. (Just spitballing here; haven't actually looked at my FM3 in a week or two...)

 

[Orvillain]

Except the model naming scheme is not consistent, when e.g all Marshall models don't start with "Brit", Fender models are all over the place, Mesa models are not all "USA" and so on. That's the whole issue! Better naming has been requested a long time ago, going afaik as far back as Axe-Fx 2 at least.

Looks pretty consistent to me. I don't expect 100% consistency. I don't expect 100% "grouped" naming conventions.

I don't expect all Mesa amps to have Mesa in there... I don't expect all Marshall amps to have Brit in there. Why would Mesa be the one that gets "USA" and not Fender??? There are many debates and inconsistencies that would crop up, when it comes to naming amps.

I'd like to know what objective metrics you think exist in order to arrive at a set of names you think you'd be happy with; let along 10,000+ users being happy with them!

Metadata systems can be kept totally separate so it has no bearing on loading models or channels, it only ever changes when new models are added. It only gets queried when a user selects a sort/filter option, no different from say searching for models by name in the amp or cab picker. Eats some storage of course, but we are not talking about something very complex to store, parse or query here - it doesn't necessarily need a database at all.

Yes. Possibly. But I'm approaching this from the perspective that I'm not a developer on this unit and I don't know what the roadmap is and how adding this kind of thing might be a complete side-quest that ends up detracting from other things.

I can think of half a dozen things I care more about than this particular naming issue to be honest:

- Midi clock output
- Ability to assign modifiers to "Time" parameters even when they are tempo-sync'd to a note
- Dedicated "mono" audio blocks (Input 1 L, Input 1 R, Output 1 L, Output 1 R, etc etc.)
- The aforementioned "moving blocks around" issue that DLC86 brought up
- Ability to see the scene controllers at the same time as a selected block, in Axe-Edit
- Tool-tips throughout Axe Edit that tell us what advanced parameters do, and how we might use them to achieve a particular tone

 

[Orvillain]

I'd rather move the other way around. The upper version requires less clicks.

Happy to move this off to a BFD-specific thread, but ... to do "what" exactly?

 

[deadpool_25]

I think the UI is what it is because that's the way Cliff wants it to be. He seems to be the kind of guy that if he was really bothered by the UI he'd change it whenever there was a major model upgrade.

Not to say that the UI couldn't be improved. Everything can be improved and we constantly strive to improve things. Resources are finite.

 

[FractalAudio]

I certainly have, but I still get e.g Edit vs Enter wrong often enough because those swap function in the layout grid for no particularly good reason.

Edit always brings up the edit menu for the selected block. There is never a situation where Edit functions as Enter.

 

[deadpool_25]

For naming consistency bring up each amp type and save it to your blocks library (channel only; not the full block) with whatever name you want - including using the real amp name if desired. Then always use the library to select your amp type.

Bonus feature: you get to define your own default settings for each amp.

 

[Orvillain]

Edit always brings up the edit menu for the selected block. There is never a situation where Edit functions as Enter.

He's right yknow. Just checked it here. Maybe Laxu meant another button??

 

[Sascha Franck]

Happy to move this off to a BFD-specific thread, but ... to do "what" exactly?

While I don't know how the new interface is supposed to work, with the old one, element selection and mixer are on one page, with the new one they seem to be on different pages.

 

[mbenigni]

If you want "My First Modeler" there are other products that are probably a better fit.

Pfft.

 

[deadpool_25]

- Dedicated "mono" audio blocks (Input 1 L, Input 1 R, Output 1 L, Output 1 R, etc etc.)
- Tool-tips throughout Axe Edit that tell us what advanced parameters do, and how we might use them to achieve a particular tone

 

[Whizzinby]

I don’t understand how it’s remotely controversial to come up with a naming a scheme that groups amps of a same company together. JFC

 

[Orvillain]

While I don't know how the new interface is supposed to work, with the old one, element selection and mixer are on one page, with the new one they seem to be on different pages.

In BFD2 we had a dedicated view for assembling a drumkit. We called it the "TV" view, similar to DR008 where you'd have these blocks for each slot, and you could click it to load a drum... and the mixer was kept completely separate, just like it is in terms of a real console.

In BFD3, for some stupid reason, we opted to make the mixer the selection mechanic for slots. Which is dumb. Because some channels don't correspond to a slot at all (aux channels, ambient channels, utility channels) and all it has done is lead to confusion for people.

Player is all about stripping back complexity and giving people great out of the box sounds. BFDx is a much bigger prospect.

 

[mbenigni]

I don’t understand how it’s remotely controversial to come up with a naming a scheme that groups amps of a same company together. JFC

This is TGF. We've spent the last 20 pages debating whether improvements make things better.

 

[Orvillain]

I don’t understand how it’s remotely controversial to come up with a naming a scheme that groups amps of a same company together. JFC

So the EVH 5153 amps get grouped with the Fender combos then???

I think you guys are placing more importance on manufacturer than it needs to be honest. What matters is how the amps sound.

I know they don't have one, but for example, if Fractal added a Marshall Class 5 amp combo, I'd want it grouped with the other white-man-blues amps, not the fire breathing high-gainers, and not the vintage hard-rock amps of yesteryear. IMHO.

Or if they added a model of the High Gain Vox amps from the mid 2000's, I wouldn't really want it grouped with the AC-whatever Vox amps... because they sound nothing alike.

In essence, I think this is the one thing that IK Multimedia got right with Amplitube 5:

 

[Orvillain]

I'm not being facetious - I think Kemper's gain-column in their editor is very useful too.

I genuinely don't care about ordering or grouping by manufacturer. I'd rather things like: gain range, genre, power tube type, decade, etc.

 

[JiveTurkey]

What if I play death metal on a tweed?

 

[Orvillain]

What if I play death metal on a tweed?

You don't.