Fender Tone Master Pro: Episode IV - A New Hope

[Mikael Dez]

No, it is a great reason not to use foot switches as knobs. It is lazy design.

I really enjoy it on my QC - I don’t plan on using it live though and if I do it will be fired from desk modeler duty anyway

 

[Frodebro]

No, it is a great reason not to use foot switches as knobs. It is lazy design.

Honestly, I think it's a brilliant design. Using the switches as encoders and the scribble strips as mini displays for editing parameters allows for a ton of on-unit tweak ability without it becoming intimidatingly cluttered. But that makes durability even more important, and I don't know how robustly specced those components are. Usually with stuff like this the engineers spec out very high quality components, then the corporate bean counters swoop in and cut them off at the knees to reduce production costs and increase margins.

 

[metropolis_4]

Touchscreens are fine, but… there is nothing worse than trying to turn a virtual knob on a touchscreen

Sliders or nothing for me in a touchscreen

 

[cherryblossom]

Touchscreens are fine, but… there is nothing worse than trying to turn a virtual knob on a touchscreen

Sliders or nothing for me in a touchscreen

TMP has footswitches that also work as knobs which is my favorite part of it. So let's say I am in a preset and touch the amp, it zooms into the amp and all of the "footswitch knobs' now are assigned to a control (with value of each parameter showing up on the scribble strip above the knob) so I just dial the physical knob to change any amp parameter. That's how it is for cabs, pedals etc. I only use touch screen to select the pedal/cab/amp that I want to modify (amongst couple of other things), if that makes sense.

 

[KHAAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!!!!!]

 

[ChordInversion]

I'm starting to sour on my TMP. I can only really use it for quick practice, because the amp selection is spare and the effects are in some ways lacking. Great interface, well made hardware, very functional in those regards. But for lots of sounds I use, I have to go to the FM9. Ironically, there are Fender amps that Fractal has and Fender doesn't. Fender's update cycle (hot fixes notwithstanding) is once every 6 months. So you get a few amps every 6 months. And that's if they don't decide to spend time on bass players. Or on adding a second(!?) Blues Junior. Or on improving models that clearly need it. And they still haven't finished the Vibro-King (it doesn't Vibro or have reverb), nor added second channels to most of their amps.

They're very far behind and not acting like it, in other words.

There's also a lot of "quality takes time" messaging. I get the desire to project that you think your stuff is the best, but...that's not how it's reviewing. They tend to be regarded as comparable to (or in some cases inferior to) the established modeling leaders on any given model. That's certainly my opinion when doing direct comparisons to my FM9. So "patience will pay off with superior sound" is not an assertion that they currently can make.

 

[mikah912]

I'm starting to sour on my TMP. I can only really use it for quick practice, because the amp selection is spare and the effects are in some ways lacking. Great interface, well made hardware, very functional in those regards. But for lots of sounds I use, I have to go to the FM9. Ironically, there are Fender amps that Fractal has and Fender doesn't. Fender's update cycle (hot fixes notwithstanding) is once every 6 months. So you get a few amps every 6 months. And that's if they don't decide to spend time on bass players. Or on adding a second(!?) Blues Junior. Or on improving models that clearly need it. And they still haven't finished the Vibro-King (it doesn't Vibro or have reverb), nor added second channels to most of their amps.

They're very far behind and not acting like it, in other words.

There's also a lot of "quality takes time" messaging. I get the desire to project that you think your stuff is the best, but...that's not how it's reviewing. They tend to be regarded as comparable to (or in some cases inferior to) the established modeling leaders on any given model. That's certainly my opinion when doing direct comparisons to my FM9. So "patience will pay off with superior sound" is not an assertion that they currently can make.

So, then, what would Fender "acting like" they're "very far behind" look like to you?

Because it seems like you just want them to offer the content of an FM9 (where applicable) in the TMP form factor and UI. And I'm pretty sure that's never been their goal and will never be.

To be clear, I'm not saying it's perfect as is, and I'm certainly anticipating and hoping certain types of content will be added soon. But they were pretty clear from the jump that they have the bandwidth to do a new amp model per month and that it's most efficient to bundle those into large impactful releases every six months that incorporate bug fixes as well as new features and additional effect/cab models.

So if they've stayed on that cadence since the very beginning...how are they just now beginning to sour on you?

Also, your last paragraph is dinging them for not bending to "perception", but what does that have to do with how you think it sounds?

 

[laxu]

Called it back when it was released. It's tough to put out a product like this when your competition has a headstart measured in years. The list of stuff people want to have in their modeler of choice is just so damn long at this point.

 

[ChordInversion]

So, then, what would Fender "acting like" they're "very far behind" look like to you?

Adding resources to accelerate the pace and/or focusing on differentiating depth. I have read on the Discord their statement about doing about 1 amp/month (they've been roughly at that rate, though it's important to note that for instance, according to them, the new Blues Jr. isn't a new amp at all, just a new cabinet). I'm coming to understand that spread across all of guitar and bass-dom, they're not at a catch up pace at all.

Because it seems like you just want them to offer the content of an FM9 (where applicable) in the TMP form factor and UI. And I'm pretty sure that's never been their goal and will never be.

To be clear, that's not what I want. What I would like would be for Fender to lead on Fender sounds, meaning the broader history of their amps. In reality, I want them to make a device that compliments the FM9 with things it doesn't do, rather than offering a slowly growing subset of what's in the FM9, leading me ultimately back to the FM9 whenever I get serious. And no, I;m not talking about a Bassbreaker or a third Blues Jr. Nearly nobody would be.

I find the interface really suited to just plugging in a guitar and dialing in like an amp. Maybe throwing an analog pedal in front. There's no real advantage to me with the TMP for building complex, effects-heavy presets. So I was thinking (hoping) they'd lead on Fender, combining and quickly expanding beyond the functionality of the Tome Master amps, givng you the one thing they can stake a claim to - being the best at putting Fender ing a box. It appears I was wrong, but I'd like that, and I think it would make good use of their brand and history to differentiate them in a positive way.

To be clear, I'm not saying it's perfect as is, and I'm certainly anticipating and hoping certain types of content will be added soon.

There we're agreed!

But they were pretty clear from the jump that they have the bandwidth to do a new amp model per month and that it's most efficient to bundle those into large impactful releases every six months that incorporate bug fixes as well as new features and additional effect/cab models.

Yeah, I wasn't really wired into their communications on this before I got mine, so I didn't know that. They didn't even have a Bassman to start, so I figured they knew they had to scramble some.

So if they've stayed on that cadence since the very beginning...how are they just now beginning to sour on you?

Because I am now losing patience with it and realizing what it actually means. I'm also souring on the notion that the slow pace, when placed in the context of trying to be all things to all people, means I am probably going to be waiting a lot of cycles to get things I use regularly. Or I might not ever get them at all. Which would be no crime but it's nothing to go on. I'm not mad at Fender, to be clear. I'm just losing my patience with their approach.

Also, your last paragraph is dinging them for not bending to "perception", but what does that have to do with how you think it sounds?

I grant it's mixing concerns. Perception doesn't change my opinion. I personally think the TMP is comparable to or slightly worse than the FM9 for some sounds, and much worse (speaking relatively, as all modern modelers sound pretty good to me) for others. I can't honestly say the TMP is the clear king of any one amp sound, though the amp trem and reverb on the Deluxe/Super/Twin are noteworthy for sure. I have to surmise that their approach to expanding capabilities is at least in part driven by their marketing desires. And that's where perception comes in. If they're slowly adding amps across a wide range of available amps in the world, and they're not going back and improving (or in the case of the Vibro-King, even finishing) amps, the perception should matter to them, and there's a good chance it will suffer outside of the die hards. Because the other vendors are improving and yes, sometimes even adsing amp sounds while Fender is still catching up.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I actually really, really
like this function with the GT1K, but I have to “forget” the device on my phone every 3rd or 4th time I want to use it or it won’t connect.

Let alone their mobile editor is a disgrace to human intelligence.

 

[mikah912]

@ChordInversion The idea of them "leading" Fractal in terms of Fender at this point seems far-fetched. Just by the numbers (and leaving out the 5153 amp channels), Fractal currently has around 35 distinct Fender amp channels. TMP now has 13 non-5153 Fender amp channels in the year and a half or so since launch.

Let's say they replaced all non-Fender guitar amps and the bass amps added since launch with new Fender amp channels. They'd still only have added 16 amp channels to date, putting them at 29 total. They wouldn't possibly "catch up" until the next update in November of this year assuming Fractal adds nothing else in the interim. They couldn't surpass until sometime in 2026. They'd be able to brag that they have some rare Fender variant Fractal doesn't or whatever 2.5 years after launch, but at what cost?

"Adding resources to accelerate the pace" also isn't as straightforward as you think. There just isn't a 1:1 relationship between headcount and development capability. I mean, Fractal is a pretty good example. They have always led the pack in content for years and years, and it's due to the tireless, obsessive work of one guy (and he's now added teams to handle the conversion of his work to FM3 and FM9). Neither you nor I have the insight to know what their development infrastructure, but we can see from a consumer standpoint that no other modeling company is adding amp models as quickly as this currently. Not Line 6. Not Fractal. Not Neural DSP.

Additionally, you're not even acknowledging that they are going back and improving amps. They've made fixes to the Friedman, the JCM800 and all three 5153 channels.

 

[ian_dissonance]

Let alone their mobile editor is a disgrace to human intelligence.

Seems to work fine for me once it’s connected. The only issue I’ve had is viewer snaps back to the front on occasion when I’m working on something further down the line. I’m not trying to use knobs on a touch screen because that’s a really stupid place for knobs, I just hold and enter a value.

 

[ChordInversion]

@ChordInversion The idea of them "leading" Fractal in terms of Fender at this point seems far-fetched. Just by the numbers (and leaving out the 5153 amp channels), Fractal currently has around 35 distinct Fender amp channels. TMP now has 13 non-5153 Fender amp channels in the year and a half or so since launch.

Let's say they replaced all non-Fender guitar amps and the bass amps added since launch with new Fender amp channels. They'd still only have added 16 amp channels to date, putting them at 29 total. They wouldn't possibly "catch up" until the next update in November of this year assuming Fractal adds nothing else in the interim. They couldn't surpass until sometime in 2026. They'd be able to brag that they have some rare Fender variant Fractal doesn't or whatever 2.5 years after launch, but at what cost?

So...they have been going way too slow with amp modeling overall?

"Adding resources to accelerate the pace" also isn't as straightforward as you think. There just isn't a 1:1 relationship between headcount and development capability. I mean, Fractal is a pretty good example. They have always led the pack in content for years and years, and it's due to the tireless, obsessive work of one guy (and he's now added teams to handle the conversion of his work to FM3 and FM9). Neither you nor I have the insight to know what their development infrastructure, but we can see from a consumer standpoint that no other modeling company is adding amp models as quickly as this currently. Not Line 6. Not Fractal. Not Neural DSP.

I really don't get the stridence here. What are you actually asking of me with all of this? To not draw any inference whatsoever from what information I have available? To sit down and shut up and never assert a negative opinion about the TMP and its amp selection again? To simply not have an opinion, full stop, and just silently sell rather than assert one?

I have worked in technology for a very long time, including in software development at places a lot bigger than Fender. I don't think it happens with a magic wand. But Fender was open on the Discord about some staff being dedicated to making amp models. I'm not saying you can make a baby in 1 month with 9 people. I'm saying you can make twice as many babies with 2 people by working kin parallel, especially in the case of making new amp models.

Additionally, you're not even acknowledging that they are going back and improving amps. They've made fixes to the Friedman, the JCM800 and all three 5153 channels.

OK, admitted. Because I never use any of those. But that's legit.

I'm not entirely sure why you're arguing with me, when I'm saying that I simply am not satisfied with the unit any more, and that my reason is because it has too few amps and the progress is too slow. Are you trying to get me to say that I am satisfied? Is this a Jedi mind trick? Or are you trying to tell me that I have no right to like what I like? No matter what angle I come from, you're responding by telling me that any opinion of what they're doing is invalid. OK. Thanks for your contribution.

@laxu called it. Starting so late to the game comes with big challenges. I wold argue that starting with a famous name also has downs to go with the ups. Having the Fender modeler released without a single Tweed amp was a choice, that's for sure.

 

[mikah912]

So...they have been going way too slow with amp modeling overall?


I really don't get the stridence here. What are you actually asking of me with all of this? To not draw any inference whatsoever from what information I have available? To sit down and shut up and never assert a negative opinion about the TMP and its amp selection again? To simply not have an opinion, full stop, and just silently sell rather than assert one?

I have worked in technology for a very long time, including in software development at places a lot bigger than Fender. I don't think it happens with a magic wand. But Fender was open on the Discord about some staff being dedicated to making amp models. I'm not saying you can make a baby in 1 month with 9 people. I'm saying you can make twice as many babies with 2 people by working kin parallel, especially in the case of making new amp models.


OK, admitted. Because I never use any of those. But that's legit.

I'm not entirely sure why you're arguing with me, when I'm saying that I simply am not satisfied with the unit any more, and that my reason is because it has too few amps and the progress is too slow. Are you trying to get me to say that I am satisfied? Is this a Jedi mind trick? Or are you trying to tell me that I have no right to like what I like? No matter what angle I come from, you're responding by telling me that any opinion of what they're doing is invalid. OK. Thanks for your contribution.

@laxu called it. Starting so late to the game comes with big challenges. I wold argue that starting with a famous name also has downs to go with the ups. Having the Fender modeler released without a single Tweed amp was a choice, that's for sure.

Of course you're entitled to your take, man. No one is arguing against that.

I guess it comes down to this: If you're unsatisfied with the pace of development, can you point to a company that's currently doing it faster or with more content per update?

 

[ChordInversion]

Of course you're entitled to your take, man. No one is arguing against that.

Cool.

I guess it comes down to this: If you're unsatisfied with the pace of development, can you point to a company that's currently doing it faster or with more content per update?

Most of those companies aren't starting from behind, and the ones that might be are not near the top end of the price range. I get that the top modelers are not going faster than Fender, because they don't have to. A double standard is valid when we're talking about radically different current states.

I am suggesting that Fender would do well to go much faster. I am also suggesting that they might do well to start by targeting a niche rather than by failing year after year to be all things to all people. Catching up on everything takes many times more effort and is almost impossible. It seems to me that they'll always be lacking in some way to a wide range of players for a long, long time with that strategy - while not leading in any way other than, for those who prefer it, the interface (and that can change all at once).

If I'm wrong, and going slower is somehow better, I am still dissatisfied by the sparse selection of amps. Especially when they thought that in selecting the 13 channels you describe, they really needed to prioritize Bassbreakers and Blues Juniors over very nearly the entire catalog of Fender amps ever made. Doubling down on budget amps in a $1600 modeler at the expense of taking advantage of brand-related presumption of superior knowledge of your own great amp history is certainly a choice.

 

[Frodebro]

So, then, what would Fender "acting like" they're "very far behind" look like to you?Because it seems like you just want them to offer the content of an FM9 (where applicable) in the TMP form factor and UI. And I'm pretty sure that's never been their goal and will never be.

What got Fender in trouble with the angry mob was releasing the TMP at the same price point as the FM9 and Helix Floor. Anybody who is preparing to drop sixteen or seven hundred bucks on a floor modeler is going to do their research. Helix and the FM9 are at about the same level overall as far as features, but the TMP was so far behind that to ask the same money at that point was just asking for criticism. They would have done themselves a huge favor to put some pre-release units in the hands of people intimately familiar with the competition and listen to their comments on what is good and what needs work.

I get that there is a lot of thought behind release dates and all of that shit, but if you’re introducing a new car to an existing market the fucking thing had better come standard with headlights, windshield wipers, and a heater.

 

[EOengineer]

Just stopping by to weigh in on the technical aspects that have been brought up…

I think if Fender had named it the Tone Blaster, that alone would make it at least twice as good as it is now.

You’re welcome.

 

[mikah912]

What got Fender in trouble with the angry mob was releasing the TMP at the same price point as the FM9 and Helix Floor. Anybody who is preparing to drop sixteen or seven hundred bucks on a floor modeler is going to do their research. Helix and the FM9 are at about the same level overall as far as features, but the TMP was so far behind that to ask the same money at that point was just asking for criticism. They would have done themselves a huge favor to put some pre-release units in the hands of people intimately familiar with the competition and listen to their comments on what is good and what needs work.

I get that there is a lot of thought behind release dates and all of that shit, but if you’re introducing a new car to an existing market the fucking thing had better come standard with headlights, windshield wipers, and a heater.

Absolutely reasonable take, and I admittedly bought mine secondhand for waaaaaaaaay less.

 

[Frodebro]

Absolutely reasonable take, and I admittedly bought mine secondhand for waaaaaaaaay less.

I was going to buy one at release, but decided to go with the FM9 instead. I really would like to give one a fair shot at some point, but the only ones I’m seeing used in my area are still too much for where they’re still at with it.

 

[[Nathan]]

I don’t disagree with a lot of the sentiments here but the updates are on par or exceed what helix kemper and qc are doing. Cliff is Usain Bolt at a high school track and field day in comparison.

It was always going to be a long ride with the TMP. The reason I actually got one is cause I knew I’d probably want to get it in 2-3 years and instead of wondering I just grabbed it to use along the way. I probably could have saved a couple hundred waiting for a sale or second hand but also ate that for the sake of just having it.

Everyone’s mileage is different and I wish more amps came sooner but at the end of the day their dev is on track, they add a lot of pedals and fx and all the other fixes, it’s just par for the course in my eyes. It’s kind of the kemper konundrum. If you’re happy with the tmp then you’re getting a better tmp every 6 months. If you fundamentally don’t like it or think it’s lacking, I doubt they’ll win you overnight. At the very least they might hit a point just like helix did where you look at it a fair while later and go…. Damn, that thing actually has a ton in there I need to check it out.

Getting my hands on a evh hypersonic when they drop and I can’t wait to pair the tmp with it, feels like it’s going to be a great small setup