Fender Tone Master Pro: Episode IV - A New Hope

[Mongillo19]

Well @Digital Igloo I am PISSED

PISSED I'm going to spend money

 

[Sedaxel]

Game over.

 

[jellodog]

 

[ChordInversion]

 

[Frodebro]

Maybe now they'll go all in on being the best at "plug in and dial in a Fender amp." Because it may be the only chance they have to capture a niche.

They actually already have a niche, and most of us loonie gear heads around here ain't it. The TMP's biggest strength is being the easy transition from traditional rigs to digital, and kudos to them for that. A LOT of people who have been intimidated by the learning curve and option paralysis of the other players in the game are embracing the TMP, which is a win for the whole digital community as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Funk Soul Brother]

I would be just the opposite in order of preference. But if I had to choose between the TMP and Kemper, I'd pick the Kemper because of how far behind other modelers Fender is in terms of amps and so on, and how slowly they're catching up. For me at least, it's not yet ready for use beyond practice.

For others (including some celebs), it is. Cool for them.

 

[ChordInversion]

They actually already have a niche, and most of us loonie gear heads around here ain't it. The TMP's biggest strength is being the easy transition from traditional rigs to digital, and kudos to them for that. A LOT of people who have been intimidated by the learning curve and option paralysis of the other players in the game are embracing the TMP, which is a win for the whole digital community as far as I'm concerned.

While true, I think it's worth noting that in their updates, Fender seems to be chasing the functionality that is (or I guess was) already in the Helix and other top tier modelers. So while the interface lends itself to my practice use - simple and easy plug in, dial in, play - they don't seem to be all that keen on focusing on that going forward. They seem to think that the TMP is going to be a feature-parity competitor in the big leagues. Not from this far behind and at one update every six months, it's not.

I could see them pivoting hard to lean into what you mean. I'd probably like that. I think it would mean more amps for easy mapping from traditional rigs, less focus on routing and trippy effects and complex performance features. I am not so sure that's what they're going to do. To be honest, it feels like they've been going in every direction at once, all very slowly, and not establishing a product identity beyond the easily emulated or surpassed touch screen/skeuomorphic thing and the Fender logo. They've been in the market for over a year and a half, and they're well behind the now-deprecated generation of Line 6 gear on feature richness.

 

[ChordInversion]

I'll note that there is considerable denial in the TMP Discord right now. And no Fender rep has said a word there in some time.

I think they have a real problem on their hands. They need to stake a distinctive product identity (that isn't just "Fender logo") before one gets assigned to them that they might not like.

 

[Lysander]

I'll note that there is considerable denial in the TMP Discord right now. And no Fender rep has said a word there in some time.

Same deal in the QC ones, fwiw.

 

[ChordInversion]

Same deal in the QC ones, fwiw.

Makes sense. They both find themselves in an interesting circumstance.

 

[Chocol8]

Makes sense. They both find themselves in an interesting circumstance.

Fender at least has the money to fix their problems if they think there is a business case. I don't think Neural has the capability of making a competitive QC 2.

 

[ChordInversion]

Fender at least has the money to fix their problems if they think there is a business case. I don't think Neural has the capability of making a competitive QC 2.

True. But Fender would also have to plant a flag publicly a bit more than they've been doing. Set the freaking course, fellas, not just this "all things in time" stuff. No, you will not have all things in time, Fender. You have to choose, prioritize, and communicate the product vision, or you're going to be left with a small, probably aging demographic willing to pay $1679 for a bunch of slow progress on maybes.

 

[ChordInversion]

Fender at least has the money to fix their problems if they think there is a business case. I don't think Neural has the capability of making a competitive QC 2.

Well, their bonds have been down rated deep into the junk territory, so don't be too certain of that:

Moody’s Downgrades Credit Rating of Fender Musical Instruments - Musicalinstrumentworld.com

Moody’s Ratings has downgraded the Corporate Family Rating (CFR) of Fender Musical Instruments Corporation (FMIC) from B2 to B3, signaling an increased risk

www.musicalinstrumentworld.com

Also, still crickets from Fender on their discord. A few users hoping Fender rises to the occasion. A few stridently asserting the TMP is better and the new Helix Stadium doesn't look good at all to them.

 

[Frodebro]

Well, their bonds have been down rated deep into the junk territory, so don't be too certain of that:

Moody’s Downgrades Credit Rating of Fender Musical Instruments - Musicalinstrumentworld.com

Moody’s Ratings has downgraded the Corporate Family Rating (CFR) of Fender Musical Instruments Corporation (FMIC) from B2 to B3, signaling an increased risk

www.musicalinstrumentworld.com

Also, still crickets from Fender on their discord. A few users hoping Fender rises to the occasion. A few stridently asserting the TMP is better and the new Helix Stadium doesn't look good at all to them.

They do have a habit of going dark when the tough questions start getting asked.

 

[[Nathan]]

Well, their bonds have been down rated deep into the junk territory, so don't be too certain of that:

Moody’s Downgrades Credit Rating of Fender Musical Instruments - Musicalinstrumentworld.com

Moody’s Ratings has downgraded the Corporate Family Rating (CFR) of Fender Musical Instruments Corporation (FMIC) from B2 to B3, signaling an increased risk

www.musicalinstrumentworld.com

Also, still crickets from Fender on their discord. A few users hoping Fender rises to the occasion. A few stridently asserting the TMP is better and the new Helix Stadium doesn't look good at all to them.

Your passion for getting disappointed at modelling companies is truly inspiring. Maybe cause I’ve been following all this stuff for 10+ years none of this is really a surprise. It’s generally crickets from everyone except from fractal, they are the anomaly.

Helix has been copping crap for 2-3-4+ years about being “old tech” and they’ve also been radio silent while other things got released. You don’t see knee jerk reactions and scrambling from these companies. You generally just wait and see how they respond. In Line6’s case they knocked it out of the park, in Kempers case it was a bit of a dud.

I think we can see the course that Fender is on it’s pretty obvious. I don’t think fractal can do much besides a new unit having some nifty features but it’ll be more of the same, maybe some nice parameter stacking to truly replicate chase bliss pedals and things like that. QC is probably the next one to get an upgrade but I don’t see that happening for 2-3 years, similar to fractal

Anyway waiting for day to day news to come out from these companies is pointless. Just gotta use the stuff how it is now. And if you love update after update then the only real option is fractal.

 

[texhex]

Speaker Impedance Curve

 

[Frodebro]

Speaker Impedance Curve

Aliasing...

 

[spawnofthesith]

null test (whatever tf thst is)

 

[ChordInversion]

Your passion for getting disappointed at modelling companies is truly inspiring. Maybe cause I’ve been following all this stuff for 10+ years none of this is really a surprise. It’s generally crickets from everyone except from fractal, they are the anomaly.

Also understand the rhetorical flourish inherent to forums. Most of us sound like we care more than we really do, I suspect. I didn't really expect them to instantly scream "OH NOES!! We been stomped!!!" Nor did I expect them to rush some new plan. But even an expression of confidence, that they saw the demo and remain sure of their course, would be something. They were active on that Discord - multiple staff members - and would respond when tagged, most days the same day. Then they got totally silent. That's all I was saying.

Helix has been copping crap for 2-3-4+ years about being “old tech” and they’ve also been radio silent while other things got released. You don’t see knee jerk reactions and scrambling from these companies. You generally just wait and see how they respond. In Line6’s case they knocked it out of the park, in Kempers case it was a bit of a dud.

Yes and yes. I think the issue with Fender that I see is that they were playing catch up to the now legacy Helix - including adding scenes functionality they left off at launch, then fixing what was not right about the scenes at first. If they'd been going their own way in a clear way, it wouldn't seem so troubling for them to be left behind. But they just had their big thing - interface distinctiveness (and possibly advantage, we'll see) - reduced or erased while falling even further behind on function and content. They don't need to scramble - quite the contrary, being calm is obviously wise, especially in public facing communications. But the conspicuous and unusual silence seemed a little odd to me, too. Or not. Whatever.

I think we can see the course that Fender is on it’s pretty obvious.

What is it? All I hear is "all things in time," and at a pace which is not keeping up, never mind catching up. And all things? Really? Everything? That's not happening, because new 'things' are emerging faster than they can fill the old gaps. If they're carving out and driving toward a product identity that is distinctive from both Line6 and Fractal modelers and still worth the similar price, that's exactly the kind of thing I would like them laying out on the Discord. They should absolutely feel free and empowered to say "We're leading in a different direction. Here's what it is. Hop on board." Right now, as I see it, they have fewer features, less content, and less stated direction than the others at very similar prices. And if anything, they're losing a little ground, not gaining it.

I don’t think fractal can do much besides a new unit having some nifty features but it’ll be more of the same, maybe some nice parameter stacking to truly replicate chase bliss pedals and things like that.

Yeah, I agree on Fractal. They still have the best combo in modeling, IMO, of pure selection and quality of amps and effects. Other disadvantages compared to Stadium for sure, and of course many people's severe dislike of the on-unit interface.

QC is probably the next one to get an upgrade but I don’t see that happening for 2-3 years, similar to fractal

And outside of their core fans, I don't know how good their name is unless they start building a track record of delivering promises on time.

Anyway waiting for day to day news to come out from these companies is pointless. Just gotta use the stuff how it is now. And if you love update after update then the only real option is fractal.

And I have an FM9T. It's great for me, and I almost never use the on-unit interface (other than stepping on switches) anyway.

I think we talk past each other on this. You think I want lots of updates. That's not it in and of itself. I want a richly featured product with ample selection of sounds, which of course is going to be assessed relative to the competition. If a product is released with sparse features and content, that's when I think a relatively quick cadence of substantially sized updates is called for, because the alternative it to always be trailing far (and now further) behind. An FM9 with slower (but still meaningful) updates would actually be fine by me (but no, Cliff, don't let that dissuade you), because it already offers so much.

 

[Mikael Dez]

null test (whatever tf thst is)

It’s for the fat loser nerds.