Hopefully....I'm going to eat some crow (Fender Tonemaster Pro content)

[AlbertA]

They really need to improve amp modeling too. Unless there’s been some major improvements since last December, it’s WAY behind Fractal and QC, and I’d even say behind current Helix.

@Jarick had a good comparison here - from those clips it certainly doesn't sound like its WAY behind to me:

Post in thread 'Fender Tone Master Pro: Episode IV - A New Hope'

Oct 16, 2025

I re-bounced all the tracks without normalization so the levels should be much more consistent. You should be able to hear the sonic differences between the two units a lot easier now.

With these clips I dialed effects levels down much more to focus on core amp tones. I also went back to my favorite old Ownhammer IR's from many years ago. With better ears and equipment to me these sound much fuller and more balanced than earlier clips.

• Jarick

• 

 

[Jarick]

I talked a lot of crap about the Fender TMP but after I got one I personally find the amp modeling in the same ballpark as my Axe FX 3. I'd say I've spent about 75% of my playing time on the Fender and maybe 20% on the Fractal over the last couple months.

Then again I'm not a Fractal fanboy and never heard the magical modeling fairy dust others did. I can't tell the difference when they release improved amp modeling updates. I do love their gear though and have basically had a Fractal of some form or another since 2016.

But the Fender sounds just as good to me while being way easier and way more fun to use, with no need to touch a computer at all. So I use that.

 

[timbuck3]

Agreed, so many variables to get your tone like the guitar, play style, entire patch and settings on the unit, impedence interaction with the cab, if you’re using IRs then impedance there, quality of IRs etc, it all matters

My mind is open to it being inferior but I just haven’t seen anything sort of conclusive about it. I see more people praise it than say it’s bad so that’s all I really go off. I’ve also never been playing an amp model and thought “this is the problem”

I’m sure it’s not fractal level deep but it’s no slouch

It’s still a contender at a good price. I just hope they get the SIC stuff ironed out

 

[AlbertA]

It’s still a contender at a good price. I just hope they get the SIC stuff ironed out

Wasn't that ironed out a while ago?

 

[timbuck3]

I've had them all, and the TMP is pretty good amp modeling, honestly.

I rarely say that one platform's amp modeling is superior or inferior to another because none of them have a library of monolithic quality where they were all done the exact same way at the exact same time.

During my TMP ownership, I was happy with the Soldano, Friedman, Princeton and Silver Jubilee in particular. The rest ranged from meh (Vox) to prettayyyyy good (latest version of the EVH Stealth). The biggest sticking point was that you had to pair third-party IRs with an impedance curve, and it just never worked right. The factory cabs were not bad at all, but I didn't like being limited to them.

That's one of a few quirks (the super serial signal chain would be another) that'll probably be deal breakers for some on other platforms. But it is a mostly well-thought out piece of kit that's still maturing. I hope that December update is a banger, and I have no reason to think it won't be.

In this day I think many seek a balance of tones/ effects in quality and quantity user interface ease on the unit and in/out ad quality plus price point. It’s a balancing act but fender came out of the gate ahead on some fronts and lacking in others. At this point.
All fractal needs is the interface update and it will ride the wave

 

[Mongillo19]

All fractal needs is the interface update and it will ride the wave

Safe for another day

 

[[Nathan]]

Safe for another day

Incentive for Cliff to never update it honestly

 

[Jarick]

Wasn't that ironed out a while ago?

It's a lot better than launch but still a bit weird. At launch they forgot to model speaker impedance curves (I think) for aftermarket IR's so everything sounded completely dead and dull. Then they fixed it by adding the impedance curves with a selector for the IR, but it seems to be more like and EQ curve applied to the IR and not a true modeled impedance curve in the amp.

Still, it seems to sound pretty good and IMO feels really good as well. All my clips were done with aftermarket IR's FYI. I find the Fender to have a pretty realistic "thump" to the low end I don't get on other modelers.

 

[ChordInversion]

Agreed, so many variables to get your tone like the guitar, play style, entire patch and settings on the unit, impedence interaction with the cab, if you’re using IRs then impedance there, quality of IRs etc, it all matters

My mind is open to it being inferior but I just haven’t seen anything sort of conclusive about it. I see more people praise it than say it’s bad so that’s all I really go off. I’ve also never been playing an amp model and thought “this is the problem”

I’m sure it’s not fractal level deep but it’s no slouch

I've seen relatively few people talk about it at all, which is interesting to me given the huge brand name. Even the two (count 'em) substantial TMP threads here have been pretty sleepy overall. Sure, it's only been out for a bit over two years, but it's still Fender.

My beef with it is that other than the skeuomorphic interface, about which I honestly care very little, it isn't distinctive at all. Selection is low, feature set is catching up or "us too" (still not quite fully baked scenes) in nature. Yes, some especially good reverbs, but that's not all that compelling to me all by itself. And they seem very content to play catch up very slowly - talking about how very long it takes to add a new amp model, as though that means theirs are so much better. They may not be much worse if at all, but they're surely not (IMO) obviously better.

I still use mine almost exclusively as a practice device. Fun for getting a half hour of practice in. The interface does help for that kind of simple plug in, dial in use. But when I'm sitting down to write or record, it doesn't work for me. People tell me I'm "lazy" or "collecting amps" or some other pejorative dismissal that really says "you don't do it like I do, and that's wrong," but I don't care. To me, the ability to page through various different and distinctive amps to try out ideas or to pair with different guitars and pedals is not only part of the fun, but part of the creative process. Fender doesn't provide that to me yet, focusing much of their low-mid gain sounds heavily on black panel amps (with similar circuits) and inexplicably putting months' worth of time into two Blues Juniors and two Bassbreakers - which were both there ahead of the Bassman or the Tweed Deluxe.

That priority speaks to a market, I get it. But that market isn't me. Ironically, the fact that I have an FM9T and other modelers is probably the main reason why I still have the TMP. I'd be losing (or would have lost) patience with them otherwise.

 

[ian_dissonance]

I played one through an FR12 for about an hour and half and the modeling is fine. Much MUCH better than launch, for sure. There was some weird “confirm before you leave the add an effect screen thing” that was super annoying and overall I just really dislike the way the display works for signal chains. Sounds fine though.

 

[Jarick]

I actually have been using the Blues Junior as my main clean amp. It's less scooped than the vintage Fenders, more balanced sounding but still a good clean sound. Kinda makes me want to snag a real one at some point.

 

[ChordInversion]

I actually have been using the Blues Junior as my main clean amp. It's less scooped than the vintage Fenders, more balanced sounding but still a good clean sound. Kinda makes me want to snag a real one at some point.

Glad it works for you! Doesn't for me at all.

I'd prefer for Fender to have taken a little more pride in their storied history. "Make sure the Blues Junior and Bassbreaker are part of the initial amp list" feels like a grey suit in marketing kind of decision to me.

 

[synthpenguin]

Going by demoes, the Tone Master Pro always sounded good to me, at least when using the built-in cabs. I haven't gotten a chance to play one, so I don't know about "feel", but outside of some weirdness* and the SIC stuff, it seems to me that it competes with late-era Helix models in any shootouts.

The interface seems perfect for people who are new to modeling and don't necessarily want to "get into modeling" or more complex rigs, and just want a digital representation of what they'd do with an amp and straightforward pedalboard. That's 90% of what I do with a modeler too, so I can understand it.

*(speaking of this though, does the Deluxe Reverb still need weird settings to match the amp or other modelers' models? Like what was shown in Leon Todd's Deluxe Reverb shootout from a year or so ago. I don't mind if the settings don't line up with the real amp exactly, but it seemed like the range of the amp was really limited, especially the treble, because of it.)

Make sure the Blues Junior and Bassbreaker are part of the initial amp list" feels like a grey suit in marketing kind of decision to me.

I can def understand not liking the priorities, though I do have to defend the Blues Junior a little bit. I think it does a pretty different thing from other Fender amps, and in a really useful way. The real amp has some downsides, obviously, but having it in digital form removes them, which is cool imo

The Bassbreaker, on the other hand, I don't get. I don't think they sold well or that Fender even makes them anymore. It would have only made sense to me if the TMP hadn't launched with all the Marshalls it did.

Fender doesn't provide that to me yet, focusing much of their low-mid gain sounds heavily on black panel amps (with similar circuits) and inexplicably putting months' worth of time into two Blues Juniors and two Bassbreakers - which were both there ahead of the Bassman or the Tweed Deluxe.

Though I'm pretty sure the TMP did launch with the '59 Bassman (looks like it was available in the day 1 firmware update)

 

[ChordInversion]

I can def understand not liking the priorities, though I do have to defend the Blues Junior a little bit. I think it does a pretty different thing from other Fender amps, and in a really useful way. The real amp has some downsides, obviously, but having it in digital form removes them, which is cool imo

OK, but a company that rams its history down people's throats at every opportunity suddenly prioritizing the Blues Junior is still just weird.

The Bassbreaker, on the other hand, I don't get. I don't think they sold well or that Fender even makes them anymore. It would have only made sense to me if the TMP hadn't launched with all the Marshalls it did.

Yeah, it would be plausible without the Marshalls, but still very weird. Just rings of a suits decision.

Though I'm pretty sure the TMP did launch with the '59 Bassman (looks like it was available in the day 1 firmware update)

You're right. They added the Bassman Custom later. I should have said just the Tweed Deluxe, the Tweed Twin (still missing), or the other plain old weird omissions when a Blues Junior and a friggin' Bassbreaker are in there. The only blonde amp is a "not-really-a-blonde" Tone Master Deluxe with the bright cap mod. Oh, and leaving the Vibro-King vibro-less (when the black panel amps all come with their built in trem and reverb) is weird, too. And every correction or patch up takes a looooong time.

It's also funny how little pride Fender takes in Fender stuff. LIke, that really jumps out at me.

 

[synthpenguin]

OK, but a company that rams its history down people's throats at every opportunity suddenly prioritizing the Blues Junior is still just weird.


Yeah, it would be plausible without the Marshalls, but still very weird. Just rings of a suits decision.


You're right. They added the Bassman Custom later. I should have said the Tweed Twin or the Super Reverb, both absurd omissions when a Blues Junior and a friggin' Bassbreaker are in there. The only blonde amp is a "not-really- a-blonde" Tone Master Deluxe with the bright cap mod. Oh, and leaving the Vibro-King vibro-less (when the black panel amps all come with their built in trem and reverb) is weird, too. And every correction or patch up takes a looooong time.

It's so funny how little pride Fender takes in Fender stuff, for one thing.

I think the Blues Junior / Bassbreaker inclusion must have been for familiarity's sake, i.e. a lot of people going from those cheaper Fender amps might be home players who they are obviously targeting to some degree with the TMP (like many modeling products do). I don't see how it would really make sense in the context of trying to move the actual amps, though maybe that happens rarely (though they don't even make the Bassbreaker anymore; I'm not sure if they still were when the TMP launched, but I remember seeing them being sold at deep discount around then).

Sort of the same thinking behind the Hot Rod Deluxe being one of only two Fender amp captures included stock with the Nano Cortex, maybe?

Anyway, yeah majorly agreed on the lack of Tweeds in particular. I can sort of understand not having the Blondes and Super Reverb at launch because they're not talked about as much, but no Tweeds besides the Bassman? Definitely odd. Even having the Bassman + a 5F1 would have covered things better.

You would think that a Fender modeling product like this would be sold at least partially as being able to step through Fender's history, and it's definitely not lost on me that, for example, the Stadium's Agoura amps at launch alone do a better job of that than the TMP did at launch.

Maybe that big December update will fix some of this!

 

[privatezero]

They really need to improve amp modeling too. Unless there’s been some major improvements since last December, it’s WAY behind Fractal and QC, and I’d even say behind current Helix.

I'm gonna have to hard disagree. I have both, Love them both, but my I find the tonemaster to be just as good as the helix for most things and far better for some things then my helix floor.

I love my helix and theres something about it that I can't just bring myself to sell it, but I play the tonemaster more, even after 2 years of ownership.

 

[paisleywookiee]

I'm gonna have to hard disagree. I have both, Love them both, but my I find the tonemaster to be just as good as the helix for most things and far better for some things then my helix floor.

I love my helix and theres something about it that I can't just bring myself to sell it, but I play the tonemaster more, even after 2 years of ownership.

Well, seeing as how I failed to back up my statements with scientific studies, I'd say it's just my opinion, and everyone else's is free to differ.

 

[ChordInversion]

You would think that a Fender modeling product like this would be sold at least partially as being able to step through Fender's history, and it's definitely not lost on me that, for example, the Stadium's Agoura amps at launch alone do a better job of that than the TMP did at launch.

Exactly! You get the Fender modeler and find it is behind...on Fenders!? And it still is, two years later, because the pace of adding models is positively glacial - in part because they have so much feature catch up and cleanup to do. The other reason being the perverse pride they seem to take in saying that adding models takes them an enormous amount of time.

Maybe that big December update will fix some of this!

I'd love for that to be true, but I'd strongly bet against it. I suspect one or two Fender amps, maybe including a "blonde" Twin that only represents another Tone Master amp, and the faithful stridently berating anyone who thinks it ought to have more. They're building quite a fanboy base of their own in that Discord, though it hasn't gotten to Kemper levels of toxicity by a longshot.

 

[ChordInversion]

I should be clear that I've kept my TMP for well over a year at this point. It is a good device, one I use for about a third to a half of my practice time. I like it, and I am not surprised that it has found a niche. I am just personally frustrated that they have a slow update cadence and so much to catch up on. It's hard to imagine them ever getting out of catch up mode long enough to distinguish themselves on anything other than the skeuomorphic interface that is nice in some ways, but not (to me at least) especially compelling for anything but the most simple signal chains once you get over the shiny newness. It's hard to imagine the amp selection will be distinctive in a good way when they lean so vocally on the notion that modeling a single channel of an amp (not counting any on board effects, which are critical to include, IMO, to maximize the value of the interface) takes three months, as though that provides artisanal cred or something. All I hear is "it'll take nine months to have both inputs of both channels of the DR available, or a whole year to cover all four input/channel combinations on a Vibrolux Reverb, if we ever offer that," and it's a bummer to me - specifically because they're Fender.

 

[timbuck3]

I'm gonna have to hard disagree. I have both, Love them both, but my I find the tonemaster to be just as good as the helix for most things and far better for some things then my helix floor.

I love my helix and theres something about it that I can't just bring myself to sell it, but I play the tonemaster more, even after 2 years of ownership.

Wow that says alot. Would love to hear the tmp vs the stadium in amps and effects that are similar.
I’m sure they’ll be some guys who have the TMP that will get to helix stadium and definitely be posting about their thoughts