Fender Tone Master Pro: Episode IV - A New Hope

[MirrorProfiles]

It’s also more useful for these companies to know what people like/don’t like, want/don’t want, what they care about etc.

It might not always be pleasant reading but it can be very valuable if they want it to be.

It has to be a two way exchange - the official reps that handle forums best are the ones that contribute insight, information, knowledge, participate in discussions and actually add value. The ones who use forums purely as a place to drop marketing spam and tell people to use their useless customer support instead of actually helping….. probably aren’t going to get much out of a forum either.

 

[ian_dissonance]

That’s why I still think running off Peter from IK sucked. I still think he’s a nice guy, but he’s the messenger. And we maimed the messenger.

IDK, he seemed to go from intentionally obtuse to defensive over what should have been simple questions both places. Don’t get on a forum as an official rep if you just want to spam advertising and avoid being helpful to the people who paid money for your stuff.

 

[DrewJD82]

Erm.. how so??

Seems to me that Peter came here with an aggressive attitude, and got back what he put in.

Criticizing prices and asking for reference signal levels isn't "maiming" at all. And he wouldn't answer the questions put to him, like... ever.

If he doesn't want to be around here, that is his choice. Nobody chased him off.

I strongly disagree with this take. (and you know I love you)

Pete didn’t show up here with an aggressive attitude, in fact, the more he didn’t acknowledge the insults sent his way, the more aggressive some members here got until I stepped in and said something. I’m quite certain a few members here are still using the ToneX stuff, but the chances of getting Pete back here for any discussion or issue fixes is looking rather slim after that whole shitshow. Calling the dude a c*nt while bitching about the pricing/functionality isn’t exactly “criticizing the price and asking for reference levels”, especially when the gang mentality pops up and it’s 5-6 guys all firing off, expecting perfect answers. That’s not realistic.

Personally, I think giving new products a good 3-6 months after launch and not seeing any progress would be a good time to get the pitchforks ready, but right out of the gate is a bit much.

I have no problem with this forum having a reputation for not letting companies slack on their word, but I think there’s a threshold between that and “that’s the forum where they‘re more likely to chase off anyone who isn’t Cliff or D.I.”

What happens when/if these products reach a desired state and there’s no representation here? Or if IK or Fender put out a different product that hits the mark 6 ways from Sunday and is awesome? Then members are forced to go to other forums where those reps still post instead of having any discussion here.

 

[eggpl@nt]

I strongly disagree with this take. (and you know I love you)

Pete didn’t show up here with an aggressive attitude, in fact, the more he didn’t acknowledge the insults sent his way, the more aggressive some members here got until I stepped in and said something. I’m quite certain a few members here are still using the ToneX stuff, but the chances of getting Pete back here for any discussion or issue fixes is looking rather slim after that whole shitshow. Calling the dude a c*nt while bitching about the pricing/functionality isn’t exactly “criticizing the price and asking for reference levels”, especially when the gang mentality pops up and it’s 5-6 guys all firing off, expecting perfect answers. That’s not realistic.

Personally, I think giving new products a good 3-6 months after launch and not seeing any progress would be a good time to get the pitchforks ready, but right out of the gate is a bit much.

I have no problem with this forum having a reputation for not letting companies slack on their word, but I think there’s a threshold between that and “that’s the forum where they‘re more likely to chase off anyone who isn’t Cliff or D.I.”

What happens when/if these products reach a desired state and there’s no representation here? Or if IK or Fender put out a different product that hits the mark 6 ways from Sunday and is awesome? Then members are forced to go to other forums where those reps still post instead of having any discussion here.

I agree with all of this, but FWIW, Pete has also pretty much abandoned TOP and the environment there was much less hostile (toward him, anyway). I don't know that forum engagements (outside of IK's) are in his wheelhouse of responsibilities or interests. We probably didn't help, but it's hard to say if he would have stuck around either way.

Also we are now three months out from TMP's release, so GET YOUR PITCHFORKS BOIS /jk

 

[Orvillain]

I strongly disagree with this take. (and you know I love you)

Pete didn’t show up here with an aggressive attitude, in fact, the more he didn’t acknowledge the insults sent his way, the more aggressive some members here got until I stepped in and said something. I’m quite certain a few members here are still using the ToneX stuff, but the chances of getting Pete back here for any discussion or issue fixes is looking rather slim after that whole shitshow.

Perhaps I am misremembering, or my memory is coloured by my current opinions on IK. I still use ToneX, but I have definitely lost a lot of my enthusiasm for the company and how they conduct their business. This thread illustrates a lot of the reasons why: https://thegearforum.com/threads/a-mild-grumble-warning-about-ik-multimedia-amplitube-5-max.1772/

Calling the dude a c*nt while bitching about the pricing/functionality isn’t exactly “criticizing the price and asking for reference levels”

I'm not sure it really went down that way???

Personally, I think giving new products a good 3-6 months after launch and not seeing any progress would be a good time to get the pitchforks ready, but right out of the gate is a bit much.

Well again... see my thread in the previous link. I gave them numerous years to fix that sort of issue.

I have no problem with this forum having a reputation for not letting companies slack on their word, but I think there’s a threshold between that and “that’s the forum where they‘re more likely to chase off anyone who isn’t Cliff or D.I.”

Yes totally agreed. I did defend Peter's right to a bit of snark here:

A mild grumble+warning about IK Multimedia & Amplitube 5 Max

We definitely need that little bong man emoji! I feel underrepresented on this forum!!!!

thegearforum.com

 

[DrewJD82]

Perhaps I am misremembering, or my memory is coloured by my current opinions on IK. I still use ToneX, but I have definitely lost a lot of my enthusiasm for the company and how they conduct their business. This thread illustrates a lot of the reasons why: https://thegearforum.com/threads/a-mild-grumble-warning-about-ik-multimedia-amplitube-5-max.1772/


I'm not sure it really went down that way???


Well again... see my thread in the previous link. I gave them numerous years to fix that sort of issue.


Yes totally agreed. I did defend Peter's right to a bit of snark here:

A mild grumble+warning about IK Multimedia & Amplitube 5 Max

We definitely need that little bong man emoji! I feel underrepresented on this forum!!!!

thegearforum.com

You literally called him a twat and a c*nt at the same time.


And the page after-(not you)

 

[Orvillain]

View attachment 17093

You literally called him a twat and a c*nt at the same time.


And the page after-(not you)

View attachment 17094

Right. So his snark went a bit over the line for me at the time, hence my twunt response.

Good portmanteau tbh.

I clearly wouldn't have said it if the response had been empathetic. But it wasn't. It was actually derisory. So you get what you dish out.

And in fact, on that particular topic - about me feeling ripped off and tricked - he was consistently derisory. I think I did quite well to last 10 pages before taking it to that place!!! There were no personal insults from me until that moment.

Fair play though, you jogged my memory.

 

[DrewJD82]

Right. So his snark went a bit over the line for me at the time, hence my twunt response.

Good portmanteau tbh.

I clearly wouldn't have said it if the response had been empathetic. But it wasn't. It was actually derisory. So you get what you dish out.

Fair play though, you jogged my memory.

Hahahaha but that wasn’t “You get what you dish out”, that was the equivalent of him saying “Don’t like it, don’t buy it” and you saying “I don’t like that answer, you’re a twat and a c*nt” Now if he said “You fucking twat, don’t like it, don’t buy it”, I’d wholeheartedly agree.

 

[Orvillain]

Hahahaha but that wasn’t “You get what you dish out”, that was the equivalent of him saying “Don’t like it, don’t buy it” and you saying “I don’t like that answer, you’re a twat and a c*nt” Now if he said “You fucking twat, don’t like it, don’t buy it”, I’d wholeheartedly agree.

And in fairness:

A mild grumble+warning about IK Multimedia & Amplitube 5 Max

I took a sales course when I was fresh out of high school and one of the things they taught us was to match your customers speaking mannerisms the best you can without coming off like you’re impersonating them; if they say darn it, you say darn it, if they curse, say the same curse, if they’re...

thegearforum.com

He seemed to have taken it well, even making a joke about it.

But yes, I accept I probably shouldn't have said it. I apologize.

 

[Orvillain]

To bring it back around... ultimately, if you strip away the facade of impolite communication, edgelordiness, whatever you want to call it.... there isn't a single thing that anyone has said about IK Multimedia that isn't true, and that isn't backed up with some evidence.

The same is true for Tone Master Pro.

It shouldn't even be called Tone Master Pro. It should be called Tone Master. Heck... it isn't even the master at anything... so it should just be called Tone... like "Big Tone".. the fat kid from school called Anthony who had a lot of promise, but ultimately just ended up working at a used car garage.

 

[DrewJD82]

And in fairness:

A mild grumble+warning about IK Multimedia & Amplitube 5 Max

I took a sales course when I was fresh out of high school and one of the things they taught us was to match your customers speaking mannerisms the best you can without coming off like you’re impersonating them; if they say darn it, you say darn it, if they curse, say the same curse, if they’re...

thegearforum.com

He seemed to have taken it well, even making a joke about it.

But yes, I accept I probably shouldn't have said it. I apologize.

No need to apologize, I wasn’t trying to hang you out to dry, just trying to slip some perspective into this discussion.

I didn’t see the other forums around that time to see how they were discussing the ToneX with him, but from that thread I’m assuming it was similar everywhere. While we can sit here on this one forum and NOT entertain the idea that “Pete just got ran through the wringer on 3 other forums and now he’s coming here to be called a c*nt while trying to discuss issues”, that seems to me the exact situation the guy was trying to handle. I wouldn’t want that job, I know that.

 

[mbenigni]

Or if IK or Fender put out a different product that hits the mark 6 ways from Sunday and is awesome?

Or NDSP?

 

[Orvillain]

No need to apologize, I wasn’t trying to hang you out to dry, just trying to slip some perspective into this discussion.

You twunt!

 

[DrewJD82]

Or NDSP?

I was debating adding a “3-6 months after launch…..unless they had over a year of hype marketing and promises given before it started shipping” in anticipation of that. They‘re not off the hook until they address the Blue Lights Of Death for me. I don’t even care about the missing/promised stuff or plugins, just consistent functional units.

 

[jellodog]

It shouldn't even be called Tone Master Pro.

And yet... I still support what Drew was saying about cutting FMIC 3 - 6 months slack to see what comes in the updates and how things pan out.

The TMP definitely needs a bunch of improvements and updates; especially with those Marshall models.

Regardless, as much as I like to mess about and joke around here (it should be fun!), I'd personally like to see a little more constructive or nuanced criticism rather than just turd jokes. But this isn't my forum and people are free to say what they want within reason, obviously.

My brain isn't getting any younger and is possibly already past it's peak, but I don't want to accelerate the brain rot with lowest common denominator garbage

 

[Orvillain]

I don't want to accelerate the brain rot with lowest common denominator garbage

I thought my Anthony metaphor was quite decent tbh.

 

[jellodog]

I thought my Anthony metaphor was quite decent tbh.

I wasn't referring to that. I kinda like Anthony, actually. I was referring more to the TBP stuff in the other thread, which may have raised a smile if it was just once or twice, but... well... you know the rest.

 

[SKU]

Enforced by years of TOP perusing, I think most forum users a lot more snowflakey and conflict-avoidant than they believe reps are. Users paid cash for a product so they are at least at little bit emotionally involved while reps just do their job and get paid for it.
So it comes off as doubly-weird to users when a rep not only is not emotional and affected but even a little bit snarky! Keep that in mind next time you think "Oh pooor [Company], we should be more thankful and mindful of how we address our conerns"

 

[SKU]

That said flat out insulting anyone will almost never conclude in anything positive but pushing for a company as a customer or potential customer in a persistent way is never a bad thing and reps are expecting that. I work for a big company and you wouldn't believe how pushy and even ... insulting a lot of customers are and that's exactly why things are worked on!!! If they were complacent no improvements would be made, obviously.

 

[DrewJD82]

Enforced by years of TOP perusing, I think most forum users a lot more snowflakey and conflict-avoiding than they believe reps are. Users paid cash for a product so they are at least at little bit emotionally involved while reps just do their job and get paid for it.
So it comes off as double-weird for users when a rep not only is not emotional and affected but even a little bit snarky! Keep that in mind next time you think "Oh pooor [Company], we should be more thankful and mindful of how we address our conerns"

Civility and decency aren’t hard things to have control over. I’m not backing down on the idea that calling company reps “C*nts” because you don’t like the answers is the wrong way to handle things, particularly if you’re looking for resolution to an issue. I’ve been in customer service my entire working life, the first thing that happens when someone approaches with with hostility over an issue is I go into robot mode, because the hostility does nothing to fix the issue and only works to sever a working relationship. If I react to that, I’m not reacting to the issue itself.