Fender Tone Master Pro: Episode IV - A New Hope

[jay mitchell]

It’s easy to add SIC curves to IR’s using software like MixIR3 or even just a DAW (by running the IR and SIC together and recording the mix into a new IR).

Nope. To do this successfully, you must create an IR of the frequency-dependent voltage divider formed by the series combination of the speaker impedance and the source impedance of the target amplifier and convolve that IR with the speaker's response IR. Do you expect this to work as intended with any amp sim driving the IR? Sorry, it'll only work with an amp sim that has the same virtual source impedance you used to create the composite IR. And that still would only account for the effect of speaker impedance on the linear part of the amp's response. To quote Ian Anderson (and date myself in the process), "Nothing is Easy."

 

[fazer]

Nope. To do this successfully, you must create an IR of the frequency-dependent voltage divider formed by the series combination of the speaker impedance and the source impedance of the target amplifier and convolve that IR with the speaker's response IR. Do you expect this to work as intended with any amp sim driving the IR? Sorry, it'll only work with an amp sim that has the same virtual source impedance you used to create the composite IR. And that still would only account for the effect of speaker impedance on the linear part of the amp's response. To quote Ian Anderson (and date myself in the process), "Nothing is Easy."

Nope. That’s not relevant in the context of my post.

Okay, I guess I am assuming that Redwires made their Impedance Curves correctly. And, no, I’m assuming what I indicated would only work for the one instance I’m referring to, which in that case would be all that was needed. All anyone needed to do was make it sound ‘right’ for this purpose, not meet any text book requirements. Logic also has an EQ match function which could be used to create IR’s if anyone really wanted to. That is how, for example, I created acoustic guitar IR’s to match the mic’d sound with my pickups - that worked very well, regardless of whether any text book says it should or not.

I’m not accusing anyone of anything, by the way, just pointing out how it could be done in this instance.

 

[LP59]

It’s easy to add SIC curves to IR’s using software like MixIR3 or even just a DAW (by running the IR and SIC together and recording the mix into a new IR). I could also choose to run an IR inline with an EQ and then re-sweep that setup in Logic. (I’m not suggesting that was actually done here, just that it could have been if it was needed or wanted.)

That's an eq curve, not an impedance curve. It has no interaction with the amplifier. Some modelers use that simplified approach, and it looks like that's what Fender is doing, but is it right to call that an impedance curve?

 

[KHAAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!!!!!]

 

[paisleywookiee]

Don’t mind me, just enjoy watching Jay interact.

 

[jay mitchell]

Okay, I guess I am assuming that Redwires made their Impedance Curves correctly.

That's definitely not a given. There's no information on his website that would come close to establishing that.

And, no, I’m assuming what I indicated would only work for the one instance I’m referring to, which in that case would be all that was needed.

It would not. See my post above.

I’m not accusing anyone of anything, by the way, just pointing out how it could be done in this instance.

It "could be done" any number of ways. However, there is no way to incorporate the character of the interaction between source and load impedance in a tube amp with only an IR.

 

[fazer]

That's definitely not a given. There's no information on his website that would come close to establishing that.

It would not. See my post above.

It "could be done" any number of ways. However, there is no way to incorporate the character of the interaction between source and load impedance in a tube amp with only an IR.

I think the other respondent @LP59 identified the misunderstanding correctly. I probably should have said ‘EQ curve designed to closely approximate an impedance curve’ rather than ‘impedance curve’. And, to clarify, the Speaker curves (or whatever you want to call them) supplied by Redwirez are just additional IR’s, so EQ curves, effectively. I didn’t intend to misrepresent anything here.

I think we are at cross purposes, again, with regard to the second point you made. For me, it would work, insofar as an EQ curve can work, which would be all that was needed to improve the result in this case. Just put it down to me not having your technical knowledge and understanding, Jay.

 

[timbuck3]

What does Pete think?

Maybe PT will replace the qc with this on his tours?

 

[JiveTurkey]

Maybe PT will replace the qc with this on his tours?

I'd rather he replace Mitch Malloy

 

[fazer]

Maybe PT will replace the qc with this on his tours?

If he does I guess it will represent a huge vote of confidence in the TMP!

 

[SwirlyMaple]

I think the other respondent @LP59 identified the misunderstanding correctly. I probably should have said ‘EQ curve designed to closely approximate an impedance curve’ rather than ‘impedance curve’. And, to clarify, the Speaker curves (or whatever you want to call them) supplied by Redwirez are just additional IR’s, so EQ curves, effectively. I didn’t intend to misrepresent anything here.

I think we are at cross purposes, again, with regard to the second point you made. For me, it would work, insofar as an EQ curve can work, which would be all that was needed to improve the result in this case. Just put it down to me not having your technical knowledge and understanding, Jay.

If you ever want to learn exactly how something audio-related works, enough that you could write your own technical white paper on it, just come in here and say it a little bit wrong while @jay mitchell is lurking

I've enjoyed getting into the occasional debate with him, but when it comes to technical merits, I don't think I've ever seen him get it wrong. I have a lot of respect for that, even if I don't always agree with the way he communicates.

 

[KHAAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!!!!!]

If you ever want to learn exactly how something audio-related works, enough that you could write your own technical white paper on it, just come in here and say it a little bit wrong while @jay mitchell is lurking

I've enjoyed getting into the occasional debate with him, but when it comes to technical merits, I don't think I've ever seen him get it wrong. I have a lot of respect for that, even if I don't always agree with the way he communicates.

 

[timbuck3]

Guitar Player Mag's "Editors Pick" award went to the tmp? wow

 

[fazer]

If you ever want to learn exactly how something audio-related works, enough that you could write your own technical white paper on it, just come in here and say it a little bit wrong while @jay mitchell is lurking

I've enjoyed getting into the occasional debate with him, but when it comes to technical merits, I don't think I've ever seen him get it wrong. I have a lot of respect for that, even if I don't always agree with the way he communicates.

Yes, he certainly knows audio! His posts are always informative.

 

[DrewJD82]

If you ever want to learn exactly how something audio-related works, enough that you could write your own technical white paper on it, just come in here and say it a little bit wrong while @jay mitchell is lurking

I've enjoyed getting into the occasional debate with him, but when it comes to technical merits, I don't think I've ever seen him get it wrong. I have a lot of respect for that, even if I don't always agree with the way he communicates.

We used to hire an electrical consultant for some of the work we do on campus, this guy was on a whole different level of intelligent, knew his worth on a financial level and knew very well how hard he was to book. Mid-project I noticed my construction manager wasn’t coming to the meetings anymore and when I asked him what was up he says “I almost called a therapist after the last time I talked to him. Do you really need me there?”

 

[LP59]

For me, it would work, insofar as an EQ curve can work, which would be all that was needed to improve the result in this case.

If it was $900 for the TMP, just using an eq would be good enough. But for $1700 I would expect a correct SIC design, like other $1700 modelers.

 

[fazer]

If it was $900 for the TMP, just using an eq would be good enough. But for $1700 I would expect a correct SIC design, like other $1700 modelers.

I agree, in principle, of course and I believe the Fender reps promised a fix of some sort but it isn’t clear to me what that meant in practice. I seem to remember Fender reps saying that the cab blocks contained an SIC (their term, not mine) but the IR block did not, yet.

 

[Orvillain]

If you ever want to learn exactly how something audio-related works, enough that you could write your own technical white paper on it

Spectral centroid.

 

[SwirlyMaple]

Spectral centroid.

You're almost there. You need to say something about it that ranges anywhere from 0% to 99% correct. Then Professor J will be summoned to bring the facts.

 

[Orvillain]

You're almost there. You need to say something about it that ranges anywhere from 0% to 99% correct. Then Professor J will be summoned to bring the facts.

Spectral centroid is a measure of brightness.

<ducks>