Fender Tone Master Pro: Episode IV - A New Hope

[laxu]

Apologies for gumming up this thread; if anyone's actually interested in what I've got to say about manufacturers, they can always open another thread.

Definitely interested in seeing what the realities of the guitar business looks from the inside. Maybe a thread on one of the other subforums?

 

[SwirlyMaple]

Since I’ve been critical of the TMP, I also want to be fair and give credit where it’s due. Over on TOP, Max posted an updated comparison of the Stealth red channel vs. the real amp. Sounding quite good now, IMO.

We did confirm there was a bug in the EVH 5150 IIIs red channel model. Here's a quick update on our progress:

Here's two recorded sound samples - the first is the original 5150 IIIs amp's red channel and Stealth 4x12 cab, mic'd with an SM57 on cap edge. The second is the updated TMP red channel model of the same (all settings the same on both the amp and TMP model).

The amp was recorded as mentioned above. We then took an IR of this cab and mic in the exact same position (to eliminate any variances), and then recorded the updated TMP red channel model with this IR.

Again, this is still a work in progress, but thought y'all would dig checking it out.

Here are the clips from his post:

 

[jellodog]

@SwirlyMaple That certainly sounds like an improvement to me!

Aside: So nice to see someone here actually using the quote box to quote from another source, instead of leaving us to work out what's going on with little clue :-)

 

[ragingplatypi]

Definitely interested in seeing what the realities of the guitar business looks from the inside. Maybe a thread on one of the other subforums?

I’d like to see a “MI Industry” subforum.

 

[JiveTurkey]

What does Pete think?

 

[timbuck3]

What does Pete think?

HE makes anything sound very good

 

[SeeD]

Since I’ve been critical of the TMP, I also want to be fair and give credit where it’s due. Over on TOP, Max posted an updated comparison of the Stealth red channel vs. the real amp. Sounding quite good now, IMO.


Here are the clips from his post:

Better then before, but less `hair` less `omph` a bit less `alive` is what im hearing. Buut, miles better then the old model

 

[ragingplatypi]

HE makes anything sound very good

I can imagine that video will be very helpful for someone who bought a TMP as their first foray into modeling, and wants to understand how to get modelers in general to sound good and get the most out of them.

 

[aflynt]

Interesting that Pete used the IR block with Acoustic guitar IRs. That's a trick I do with my FM3. It seems like maybe the TMP doesn't convolve the SIC in the IR block unless you have an amp block in the chain? Or is there a default SIC in there in Pete's demo and nobody noticed?

-Aaron

 

[dean701]

Pete can work with anything or anybody. Very talented but if you are looking for critical reviews, he's not your guy. If you're interested in watching someone who can pull great progressions out of thin air, he's amazing. He's not in the business of posting gear trashing videos, he's got a good thing going.

 

[SwirlyMaple]

Interesting that Pete used the IR block with Acoustic guitar IRs. That's a trick I do with my FM3. It seems like maybe the TMP doesn't convolve the SIC in the IR block unless you have an amp block in the chain? Or is there a default SIC in there in Pete's demo and nobody noticed?

-Aaron

I was wondering that myself, and it is a good example of why we’d like clarity from Fender on exactly how this stuff works.

As far as I know, all 3rd party IRs get a fake impedance curve EQ filter applied to them right now.

 

[Mongillo19]

As far as I know, all 3rd party IRs get a fake impedance curve EQ filter applied to them right now.

A) "That's not how it works"
B) "There is more than one way to do it"
C) "You don't understand"

 

[gearJunkie]

A) "That's not how it works"
B) "There is more than one way to do it"
C) "You don't understand"

You forgot...

D) all of the above

 

[paisleywookiee]

Pete can work with anything or anybody. Very talented but if you are looking for critical reviews, he's not your guy. If you're interested in watching someone who can pull great progressions out of thin air, he's amazing. He's not in the business of posting gear trashing videos, he's got a good thing going.

Pete doesn't do gear reviews. He does gear demos.

 

[Frodebro]

A) "That's not how it works"
B) "There is more than one way to do it"
C) "You don't understand"

I’m leaning more and more toward hardware limitations (specifically the core that runs the amp models, which was suggested as a possibility by Cliff) are the reason why they are so cryptic about this one singular issue. If it’s something they cannot easily fix without a complete work over of the firmware, they’re not going to want to talk about it. And this business of gaslighting the people who bring it up (mostly by their army of five happy customers over there) just makes it all the more annoying.

And I don’t blame Max and Stilwel for the way they’re dealing with it, I have a feeling that their hands are tied here.

 

[jellodog]

@Frodebro If there aren't any spare cycles available to the amp core right now, then presumably the developers are hoping that several rounds of aggressive optimisations will free up enough processor cycles to allow some retrofitting of additional power amp behaviours. That could take many months (or years) of solid hard work though.

We saw something similar with the Helix improved oversampling release: that could only be added after the rest of the code had matured and been optimised. Of course it took L6 years to get to that point.

 

[LP59]

And I don’t blame Max and Stilwel for the way they’re dealing with it, I have a feeling that their hands are tied here.

It looks to me like they were given the job of designing a low cost modeler that doesn't have the power or cost of a Helix or FM9, and they accomplished that goal. But then somebody in marketing changed the plan at the last minute and decided to raise the price to $1700. That puts them in an impossible position of defending the TMP against modelers it was never intended to compete with.

 

[riffy]

Marketing changing the plan with a much higher cost isn't it.

 

[fazer]

Interesting that Pete used the IR block with Acoustic guitar IRs. That's a trick I do with my FM3. It seems like maybe the TMP doesn't convolve the SIC in the IR block unless you have an amp block in the chain? Or is there a default SIC in there in Pete's demo and nobody noticed?

-Aaron

It’s easy to add SIC curves to IR’s using software like MixIR3 or even just a DAW (by running the IR and SIC together and recording the mix into a new IR). I could also choose to run an IR inline with an EQ and then re-sweep that setup in Logic. (I’m not suggesting that was actually done here, just that it could have been if it was needed or wanted.)

 

[fazer]

I’m leaning more and more toward hardware limitations (specifically the core that runs the amp models, which was suggested as a possibility by Cliff) are the reason why they are so cryptic about this one singular issue. If it’s something they cannot easily fix without a complete work over of the firmware, they’re not going to want to talk about it. And this business of gaslighting the people who bring it up (mostly by their army of five happy customers over there) just makes it all the more annoying.

And I don’t blame Max and Stilwel for the way they’re dealing with it, I have a feeling that their hands are tied here.

I have experienced the part in bold above (my emphasis) while repeatedly raising an issue I have been having with trying to use the TMP’s JC120 model - yes I know few will actually care about that model - in which the dynamic response of the amp seems excessive in relation to picking attack (compared to other TMP models and also the JC in other modeller like the GT1k and Helix). I created a test preset, along with notes on how I am arriving at this conclusion for one of the fender reps who asked for more information. He was very decent about it but said, basically, he still could not find the issue I had identified which seems strange to me as I have never experienced this issue before and it seems (to me) to be an obvious issue.

I cannot be surprised that my issue with the JC120 may not be a priority or, perhaps, even important at all, as I doubt many people even try this amp but if Fender is taking the approach that they should acknowledge as little error as possible in the TMP then it is certainly not giving customers much faith in the unit.