Fender Tone Master FR-10 and FR-12 "FRFR" cabs

[Baba]

I like how this thing is simultaneously claimed to be flat and full range while at the same time claimed to have "something" that makes it "better" for guitar than flat.

I don't even need to know what the magical "something" is, just let me know what "better" means

It’s “better” to me, because:

1. It’s not as directional (somehow), as other solutions are.
2. It sounds closer to a conventional guitar cab than other solutions do, especially the plastic ones.
3. It’s light.
4. It’s priced at a lower point, than a lot of other solutions, that are pretty good, but don’t sound as good, IMO.

I guess some of us got a little too wrapped up in the REAL "FRFR", when what some of us really wanted, was something that sounded more like a conventional amp, in the first place.

 

[deadpool_25]

View attachment 29312

WDW??

 

[deadpool_25]

I like how this thing is simultaneously claimed to be flat and full range while at the same time claimed to have "something" that makes it "better" for guitar than flat.

I don't even need to know what the magical "something" is, just let me know what "better" means

As baba said, it sounds (feels?) more like a traditional cab than other ""FRFR"" systems I've tried. I'm not sure why that is. I suppose it could be tied to the EQ curve but that doesn't make sense to me as that characteristic remains even when I adjust the onboard knobs. I'd guess it has something to do with the way the actual cabinet resonates whether that's the wood, the shape, both, or something else about it. Regardless, the damn things just sound good. Really good.

IMO

 

[pipelineaudio]

It’s “better” to me, because:

1. It’s not as directional (somehow), as other solutions are.

I think someone said its not concentric. On the other hand, once I'm like 6 feet away from a divorced woofer/tweeter, they don't really sound so much different to me than concentric

2. It sounds closer to a conventional guitar cab than other solutions do, especially the plastic ones.

In what way would that be good? Or what does this mean? If it changes the frequency response, it may be better sometimes but would be worse at other times. What does a conventional guitar cab sound like? If you have an impulse of that cab, this would then make it sound LESS like a conventional cab

3. It’s light.

That's a big plus

4. It’s priced at a lower point, than a lot of other solutions, that are pretty good, but don’t sound as good, IMO.

That's an even better plus

I guess some of us got a little too wrapped up in the REAL ""FRFR"", when what some of us really wanted, was something that sounded more like a conventional amp, in the first place.

I really don't understand how this would work. Like is it closer in frequency? Directivity? Dynamics?

 

[pipelineaudio]

As baba said, it sounds (feels?) more like a traditional cab than other """FRFR""" systems I've tried. I'm not sure why that is. I suppose it could be tied to the EQ curve but that doesn't make sense to me as that characteristic remains even when I adjust the onboard knobs. I'd guess it has something to do with the way the actual cabinet resonates whether that's the wood, the shape, both, or something else about it. Regardless, the damn things just sound good. Really good.

IMO

He already had me at cheap and light!

I really like the alto TS410, but I like the directivity of the Celestion FX12-200. I put one inside a Katana and its pretty good except for the known frequency dip in the upper mids.

I'm really hoping you guys are wrong about the FR12 and that it is just pretty much flat and doesn't do anything weird to the sound unexpectedly, it seems like the perfect cab if so. How loud is it compared to the Powercab?

 

[jellodog]

I don't even need to know what the magical "something" is, just let me know what "better" means

Yeah, it's really not flat at all at default settings. You have to cut bass and boost mids and treble to flatten it out and even then, it's not really flat.

And yet... it's still enjoyable to play.

 

[molul]

I'm really interested in testing this thing. If no Line6 equivalent is released before the year ends, I'm likely getting one.

So far it looks like the 10" version is better overall, right?

 

[deadpool_25]

I'm really hoping you guys are wrong about the FR12 and that it is just pretty much flat and doesn't do anything weird to the sound unexpectedly, it seems like the perfect cab if so. How loud is it compared to the Powercab?

It's not like we're just guessing here. WKSmith posted some response charts on the fractal forum.

Fender FR-12 preamp mod : The Hissterectomy

So here’s a question, @WKSmith. Given your news about the phase reversal in the stock preamp, what happens if I install my reserved unit you built then down the road add another FR for stereo purposes. Do I need two of your preamps?

forum.fractalaudio.com

Regardless, it sounds great and gets very loud.

 

[mbenigni]

Probably "the opposite of worse".

Probably the opposite of FR.

(But that isn't necessarily a bad thing.)

 

[deadpool_25]

Saying it sounds more like a cab is basically saying that it evokes more of the feeling of the IR you're using than some other FRFRs. Like when I load up a 4x12 cab IR it doesn't sound as much like a 4x12 in a cardboard box and sounds more like a 4x12 is supposed to.

 

[mbenigni]

As baba said, it sounds (feels?) more like a traditional cab than other """FRFR""" systems I've tried. I'm not sure why that is. I suppose it could be tied to the EQ curve but that doesn't make sense to me as that characteristic remains even when I adjust the onboard knobs. I'd guess it has something to do with the way the actual cabinet resonates whether that's the wood, the shape, both, or something else about it. Regardless, the damn things just sound good. Really good.

IMO

How does it do with "pretending" to be an open-back Fender, 1x12, then a closed-back 4x12, etc.? I know you can't get something from nothing, but is it capable of representing cab sims "upstream" - at least better than a conventional 1x12?

I'm mostly interested in being able to throw synths/ samples at it in between (or sometimes layered with) the amp sims.

EDIT: LOL @deadpool_25 we sorta crossed in the mail on this one.

 

[deadpool_25]

So far it looks like the 10" version is better overall, right?

I the 10 apparently sounds very close to the 12 (I've personally only tried the 12) but is smaller and less expensive. There are people who've had both and then preferred one or the other.

I went with the 12 because I traditionally use 12" speakers in my guitar cabs so it was a natural choice. Also I figured I'd never find myself wishing for a smaller speaker, but I could potentially wish I'd gotten the bigger speaker.

 

[mbenigni]

So far it looks like the 10" version is better overall, right?

It's definitely better if you're hungry enough to eat $100 worth of pizza. Or if, like @MTB1973, you live in a shoebox.

 

[deadpool_25]

How does it do with "pretending" to be an open-back Fender, 1x12, then a closed-back 4x12, etc.? I know you can't get something from nothing, but is it capable of representing cab sims "upstream" - at least better than a conventional 1x12?

I'm mostly interested in being able to throw synths/ samples at it in between (or sometimes layered with) the amp sims.

EDIT: LOL @deadpool_25 we sorta crossed in the mail on this one.

Still sounded great with my Hydrasynth Explorer even with knobs at noon. Sounded maybe even a tiny bit better with a slight boost to the mid knob.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Synths sound great through it. Acoustic sims are a little but every other synth sound I've thrown at it sounds great.

 

[molul]

I'm still struggling with the form factor. Having gotten used to Headrush 108 for the last 3 years, getting back to this size is a difficult decision, because in my band there are very few cars and so much equipment to carry xD

But I'm very interested in the audio improvement. I've seen a comparison of these Fenders and the Headrush 108 and it's quite noticeable.

I'll still wait a few months in case Line6 launches something like this, but I'm definitely moving away from the Headrush. It's being useful but I want to sound better.

 

[Baba]

In what way would that be good? Or what does this mean? If it changes the frequency response, it may be better sometimes but would be worse at other times. What does a conventional guitar cab sound like? If you have an impulse of that cab, this would then make it sound LESS like a conventional cab

It's hard to describe, and maybe this is why Fender got it so right, IMO:

It doesn't seem like they were going for "the true "FRFR" sound of whatever IR you're using", it seems like they were going for, "even though you are using a complete chain, including an IR and a mic, it's going to come out sounding like that, AND Amp where I'm atTM, at the same time", lol.

Yeah, it's really not flat at all at default settings. You have to cut bass and boost mids and treble to flatten it out and even then, it's not really flat.

And yet... it's still enjoyable to play.

Truth

Saying it sounds more like a cab is basically saying that it evokes more of the feeling of the IR you're using than some other FRFRs. Like when I load up a 4x12 cab IR it doesn't sound as much like a 4x12 in a cardboard box and sounds more like a 4x12 is supposed to.

Truth.

A QSC K12.2, for example, is LOUD, and reproduces sound well, and isn't cheap, but even that speaker, where it usually is, onstage, seems like it has a small dispersion pattern, (or we just end up standing too close to them), and sounds a bit "plasticky", and well, small, compared to the FR-12.

The FR-12 sounds to me like a 3x12. Not quite a 4x12, but bigger than a 2x12

I figured I'd never find myself wishing for a smaller speaker, but I could potentially wish I'd gotten the bigger speaker.

Like engine displacement, bank accounts, penis size . . .

 

[mbenigni]

Synths sound great through it. Acoustic sims are a little but every other synth sound I've thrown at it sounds great.

I can't get Musician's Friend to answer their phone or reply to the online Chat thing. Their collective "bottom feeder" alert must be going off LOL.

But I'm not going to pay a shipping fee that puts the used FR-10's price within striking distance of a new one. That's just stupid. Back in the day they'd truck stuff between stores with no cost to the customer... I think?

 

[Baba]

Back in the day they'd truck stuff between stores with no cost to the customer... I think?

I miss this. Made my gear flipping MUCH easier.

 

[pipelineaudio]

It's not like we're just guessing here. WKSmith posted some response charts on the fractal forum.

Fender FR-12 preamp mod : The Hissterectomy

So here’s a question, @WKSmith. Given your news about the phase reversal in the stock preamp, what happens if I install my reserved unit you built then down the road add another FR for stereo purposes. Do I need two of your preamps?

forum.fractalaudio.com

This is like the same sort of microphone "frequency response" we show our engineering students as an example of "smoothing"

MAYBE that's a smoothed version of the power amp output, if its the speaker output its smoothed beyond any semblance of reality. The curve does make sense on why people would like it though, its pretty much the definition of Loudness. Should actually be pretty cool until super high volumes and maybe ok even then