Fender Tone Master FR-10 and FR-12 "FRFR" cabs

[Stratzrus]

Typo? I can’t find a product with “Archangel V@ Gold.”

Fixed.

Often wrong, never in doubt.

 

[Cactusprick]

I bought my FR-12 months ago and I don't think it had "the fix". It had some hiss but it was pretty low. Noticeable in a quiet room when not playing but inaudible when playing, let alone when playing with others.

I considered getting the Archangel V2 Gold to be an option, not a necessity. I ended up getting it not just for the hiss reduction but for all of the other benefits it offers including the improved tone controls, phase correction, headroom, and overall clarity. I didn't consider this a fix as much as an upgrade, in the same way that you might do a pickup swap even on a new $3K+ Les Paul Reissue.

If a quality pickup swap is reasonable, even one that costs around $150 or more, then spending a comparable amount to upgrade the preamp on the FR-12 seems equally reasonable. People get amps modded all the time, particularly Marshalls, and if you can get that done for $150 it's a steal. With the V2 preamp a FR-12 is around $700. To me, that's a very reasonable amount to pay for a quality amp that's easy to carry and capable of concert volume.

With all of that said, I can see how, if you're committed to staying in the Helix camp and have no pressing immediate need for a modeling amp, it may make sense to wait to see if Helix comes out with something particularly designed to be compatible with and to enhance what you already have.

Good luck no matter what you decide.

How do you find the v2 preamp? Did it make a meaningful improvement?

 

[Stratzrus]

How do you find the v2 preamp? Did it make a meaningful improvement?

Absolutely!

It's an improvement over the stock preamp across the board. Liam has listed all of the changes but for me the most important improvements in addition to the elimination of the hiss are the overall increased clarity, tighter and extended bass, better tone controls, and increased headroom.

For me, the hiss elimination was icing on the cake.

 

[mbenigni]

Bumping this thread to revisit the question: Has anyone here ever had the opportunity to compare the performance of an FR-10 versus an FR-12? Or to hear an FR-10 at all? I'm generally all for downsizing and saving $100, but the printed specs on these two products are so ridiculously similar, it's hard to comprehend why Fender even bothered with two different SKUs. The FR-10 is about 4" wider, 2lbs lighter, with otherwise identical (for all practical purposes) dimensions. Cited SPL and frequency response are identical.

For most guitar applications, common wisdom would have it that a 12" speaker will sound better than a 10" speaker, but when it comes to FR monitors, this has not consistently been my experience. It's all about how the mids are handled where the crossover breaks from the HF driver to the larger speaker, and in some cases 10" solutions actually sound better. Still feeling like a deer stuck in the headlights on this one. Neither of these cabinets are available for auditioning in local stores, and 25+ lb cabs are the one thing I'd rather not casually ship back and forth to dealers.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Bumping this thread to revisit the question: Has anyone here ever had the opportunity to compare the performance of an FR-10 versus an FR-12? Or to hear an FR-10 at all? I'm generally all for downsizing and saving $100, but the printed specs on these two products are so ridiculously similar, it's hard to comprehend why Fender even bothered with two different SKUs. The FR-10 is about 4" wider, 2lbs lighter, with otherwise identical (for all practical purposes) dimensions. Cited SPL and frequency response are identical.

For most guitar applications, common wisdom would have it that a 12" speaker will sound better than a 10" speaker, but when it comes to FR monitors, this has not consistently been my experience. It's all about how the mids are handled where the crossover breaks from the HF driver to the larger speaker, and in some cases 10" solutions actually sound better. Still feeling like a deer stuck in the headlights on this one. Neither of these cabinets are available for auditioning in local stores, and 25+ lb cabs are the one thing I'd rather not casually ship back and forth to dealers.

Amazon or GC with return options are the way to go on this. I would grab the 12 out of pure principle. The idea of "FRFR" is a dumptruck full of caveats anyway and I wouldn't add "should I get the 10 or the 12?" to that dumptruck. Personally speaking at least

 

[mbenigni]

The idea of ""FRFR"" is a dumptruck full of caveats anyway and I wouldn't add "should I get the 10 or the 12?" to that dumptruck. Personally speaking at least

That speaks to the "common wisdom" I mentioned above. But then, I've run modelers into 12" "FRFR" powered cabs and 10" same, and often the 10" builds sound much better. Lots of apples and oranges in terms of materials, geometry, etc. of course.

In the case of these Fenders, intuition says the wider cab will sound better and be less directional. I just wish someone/ anyone could say they've actually heard the FR-10 like, ever. I wonder whether Fender has even sold any.

(And do the presumed lesser quantities in FR-10 sales make it that much more likely that I'll receive a NOS unit with a noisy preamp circuit.)

 

[JiveTurkey]

That speaks to the "common wisdom" I mentioned above. But then, I've run modelers into 12" ""FRFR"" powered cabs and 10" same, and often the 10" builds sound much better. Lots of apples and oranges in terms of materials, geometry, etc. of course.

In the case of these Fenders, intuition says the wider cab will sound better and be less directional. I just wish someone/ anyone could say they've actually heard the FR-10 like, ever. I wonder whether Fender has even sold any.

(And do the presumed lesser quantities in FR-10 sales make it that much more likely that I'll receive a NOS unit with a noisy preamp circuit.)

I get the logic and mindset 100%. I only have so much room for overthought, though The noisy preamp paranoia would lean me towards getting a new 12 and being "done". Or finding a used 12 and grabbing on the preamp boards. I actually have a replacement preamp they sent that I am not using if you want to roll the dice and go the used route.

 

[mbenigni]

I get the logic and mindset 100%. I only have so much room for overthought, though The noisy preamp paranoia would lean me towards getting a new 12 and being "done". Or finding a used 12 and grabbing on the preamp boards. I actually have a replacement preamp they sent that I am not using if you want to roll the dice and go the used route.

Thank you! I will keep an eye out.

(Hits Reverb.com, where all the used gear is literally $100 more expensive than new...)

 

[JiveTurkey]

Thank you! I will keep an eye out.

(Hits Reverb.com, where all the used gear is literally $100 more expensive than new...)

I'm looking for another GM800 now (kind of following in your footsteps) to keep a smaller rig and larger rig "on the ready" and be able to stay in the same family vs. having pieces from 37 different companies. Not that there's anything wrong with that but selective OCD always wins, obviously

 

[mbenigni]

I'm looking for another GM800 now (kind of following in your footsteps) to keep a smaller rig and larger rig "on the ready" and be able to stay in the same family vs. having pieces from 37 different companies. Not that there's anything wrong with that but selective OCD always wins, obviously

"Variety" means having the one you actually use, and all the rest in the closet "just in case".

 

[deadpool_25]

@mbenigni

Fender FR-12 vs FR-10

There has been a lot of positive talk about the Fender FR cabs lately, so I want to check one out (will be a single cab for mono use). I’m not sure whether to get the 10 or the 12 though. Of course I could buy both and see which I prefer (which I may wind up doing), but I am interested in...

forum.fractalaudio.com

 

[JiveTurkey]

"Variety" means having the one you actually use, and all the rest in the closet "just in case".

For me; my FM/GM board is streamlined AF in the best of ways. We've added some new songs that need additional fx and I am feeling the 3 button limitation to a point where I could A: blow it all up or B: use the gd racked Axe III with my FC12 when I want to go nuts with switching options and bring the FM to smaller gigs where I don't care to futz around. That's the thought for now, at least.

 

[JiveTurkey]

@mbenigni

Fender FR-12 vs FR-10

There has been a lot of positive talk about the Fender FR cabs lately, so I want to check one out (will be a single cab for mono use). I’m not sure whether to get the 10 or the 12 though. Of course I could buy both and see which I prefer (which I may wind up doing), but I am interested in...

forum.fractalaudio.com

I think @hippietim has an FR10 as well?

 

[mbenigni]

@mbenigni

Fender FR-12 vs FR-10

There has been a lot of positive talk about the Fender FR cabs lately, so I want to check one out (will be a single cab for mono use). I’m not sure whether to get the 10 or the 12 though. Of course I could buy both and see which I prefer (which I may wind up doing), but I am interested in...

forum.fractalaudio.com

Thank you! Surprising comments. Mostly in the vein of, "almost indistinguishable", but with this at the very end:

"I kept FR10. There wasn't really any noticable difference in loudness for me, but FR10 sounds for me more clear, it is smaller and lighter. After some months of using it both when performing, practicing with my band and at home - I can fully recommend it."

Good food for thought. I'm actually leaning FR-10 again.

 

[mbenigni]

For me; my FM/GM board is streamlined AF in the best of ways. We've added some new songs that need additional fx and I am feeling the 3 button limitation to a point where I could A: blow it all up or B: use the gd racked Axe III with my FC12 when I want to go nuts with switching options and bring the FM to smaller gigs where I don't care to futz around. That's the thought for now, at least.

FM and GM are different enough to complement one another. My "variety" snark was more to do with owning a QC and an FM3 because you might wake up one morning with a burning desire to tweak SIC on a power amp you've never even seen in real life. Or something. Except you haven't actually found the time to learn how to do that, and would probably have a conniption trying.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Thank you! Surprising comments. Mostly in the vein of, "almost indistinguishable", but with this at the very end:

"I kept FR10. There wasn't really any noticable difference in loudness for me, but FR10 sounds for me more clear, it is smaller and lighter. After some months of using it both when performing, practicing with my band and at home - I can fully recommend it."

Good food for thought. I'm actually leaning FR-10 again.

One thing to consider. And not to add to the overthought.

I was having some volume issues with my FR and the FM. I worked out my level issues for the most part but if the QC has a lower output; you might find the FR isn't going to be loud enough in some situations. Keeping up with a LOUD band without PA support could be a crap shoot. If you just want it for loud "flat-ish" jamming; it kills.

 

[JiveTurkey]

FM and GM are different enough to complement one another. My "variety" snark was more to do with owning a QC and an FM3 because you might wake up one morning with a burning desire to tweak SIC on a power amp you've never even seen in real life. Or something. Except you haven't actually found the time to learn how to do that, and would probably have a conniption trying.

And I end up always going to move the GM from pedalboard to whatever idiotic form factor concoction to make an updated rig work. Buying a second GM (while it might seem excessive or stupid) frees up this mindset and allows me to futz around and find out while knowing there will be a stable rig in the mix alongside something perpetually changing

 

[mbenigni]

One thing to consider. And not to add to the overthought.

I was having some volume issues with my FR and the FM. I worked out my level issues for the most part but if the QC has a lower output; you might find the FR isn't going to be loud enough in some situations. Keeping up with a LOUD band without PA support could be a crap shoot. If you just want it for loud "flat-ish" jamming; it kills.

No loud band action on the immediate radar. I've just started working with a drummer again, but he's not a basher at all. The other day I was able to (easily) keep up with him running QC -> BAM200 -> that little Stage Right 1x12.

 

[JiveTurkey]

No loud band action on the immediate radar. I've just started working with a drummer again, but he's not a basher at all. The other day I was able to (easily) keep up with him running QC -> BAM200 -> that little Stage Right 1x12.

You should be good then. Half of my issue was something on the FM that I am not sure where I had it wrong after it was all said and done.

 

[mbenigni]

Half of my issue was something on the FM that I am not sure where I had it wrong after it was all said and done.

I can't imagine getting confused configuring an FM3...