" Feel " ...... FM3 -vs- Helix ..... thoughts (?)

[BenIfin]

Hi all !

Not looking to start a slag-off of which is better or worse ... I am using an FM3 with CX3 and am very happy :)

My view is that sonically - just on tone - these units are different but equally as good as each other in their own way.

However the general consensus (?) seems to be that the Fractal "feels" better.

Assuming that is the case ..... what can / should L6 do to make their Helix series "feel" better (?)

Or could it be just as simple as the analog hardware front and back end on the Fractal is better (?)

Interested to hear what people think.

Ben

 

[JiveTurkey]

Helix 'feel' is perfect. It's the sound I have trouble with, comparatively.

 

[pablo retamal]

l6 hx has been doing things well since their fw 3.5... the new amp models are amazing, I think I would like helix to have an update to the old amps with whatever they did with the new amps... I would forget completely fractal if it happens!

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

However the general consensus (?) seems to be that the Fractal "feels" better.

"I'm not trying to start a slag off, I'm just going to state that there is a general consensus when no such thing exists."

Even if that were true and everyone here agreed, what can anyone say?

"They should improve the feel."?

"They should improve the modeling."?

 

[JCW308]

The sag setting on HX is nice, it kinda just does it for me as far as feel goes. That being said, the Fractal DOES in fact feel better (to me at least). I always feel more connected on Fractal stuff.

 

[Alex Kenivel]

 

[BenIfin]

I guess I'm just trying to get an idea of what L6 can or could do [if anything] to improve the feel of the Helix compared to the Fractal given that there seems to be a consensus (?) that the Fractal "feels" better (?)

Im not a "techo" so don't know if this is potentially an algorithm thing or a settings thing or a hardware thing or some combo of all these.

Ben

 

[the-trooper]

Define "fEeL".

 

[Foxmeister]

However the general consensus (?) seems to be that the Fractal "feels" better.

When I owned my FM3 and later FM9, there was no quantitative or qualitative difference in feel as far as I was concerned for the types of music that I play, which doesn't include metal!

 

[Enchilada Jones]

I ‘think’ they are both equal in the sound and feel. I could go from one to the other in real time and sometimes it was an improvement and sometimes it was a disappointment. Whether they were same amp type or not.
I would tell myself it’s just the particular amp model I was moving from or to that caused it.

I believe though that a lot of it is the psychological effect of knowing I’m using a modeler and the consensus is there is inherent inferiority to the ‘real thing’ therefore I should be aware of any flaws in my sound and it is the device that is to blame.
The ‘feel’, beyond horrible latency if it is there (which the top tier don’t have) is just the effect of what you hear in the nature of attack and decay and sustain of the notes you play.
The top tier devices are all so good and they perfectly deliver the recorded amp in the room.
The listener is the defective link in the chain for trying to hear the amp speaker in the room when playing a device intended to deliver a recorded amp sound into the room.

Listen to a recording of your favorite guitar parts, then play those parts on a guitar through a modeler against *that* point of reference and all is well, feel and sound/tonez, etc.
Do the same with your guitar through the amp in your room as the reference and the contrast is problematic be it Line 6 or Fractal etc.

TLDR: Get real! It’s not supposed to be different than a recorded, therefor slightly removed sound/feel.
You are supposed to play through a real amp to get the real feel/ sound. That big vibrating guitar speaker cab/cone is the difference, not some code in DSP

 

[JCW308]

I ‘think’ they are both equal in the sound and feel. I could go from one to the other in real time and sometimes it was an improvement and sometimes it was a disappointment. Whether they were same amp type or not.
I would tell myself it’s just the particular amp model I was moving from or to that caused it.

I believe though that a lot of it is the psychological effect of knowing I’m using a modeler and the consensus is there is inherent inferiority to the ‘real thing’ therefore I should be aware of any flaws in my sound and it is the device that is to blame.
The ‘feel’, beyond horrible latency if it is there (which the top tier don’t have) is just the effect of what you hear in the nature of attack and decay and sustain of the notes you play.
The top tier devices are all so good and they perfectly deliver the recorded amp in the room.
The listener is the defective link in the chain for trying to hear the amp speaker in the room when playing a device intended to deliver a recorded amp sound into the room.

Listen to a recording of your favorite guitar parts, then play those parts against *that* point of reference and all is well, feel and sound/tonez, etc.
Do the same with the amp in your room as the reference and the contrast is problematic be it Line 6 or Fractal etc.

TLDR: Get real! It’s not supposed to be different than a recorded, therefor slightly removed sound/feel.
You are supposed to play through a real amp to get the real feel/ sound.

There is a difference in feel between Fractal and Helix. I have used both extensively. Neither are bad, Fractal is more immediate and more responsive for sure. Not by much, but it's there. And no, it's not psychological. I'm not a Fractal fanboy, either. I like their stuff but actually can't stand their UI.

 

[laxu]

Never had complaints about either.

 

[Enchilada Jones]

There is a difference in feel between Fractal and Helix. I have used both extensively. Neither are bad, Fractal is more immediate and more responsive for sure. Not by much, but it's there. And no, it's not psychological. I'm not a Fractal fanboy, either. I like their stuff but actually can't stand their UI.

Different, slightly sure. But to some the ‘winner’ is the opposite. There is a subjective preference factor.
Go try a Boss GT1000 and the Fractal comes in second place in the ‘immediacy’ race but does that make Boss modeling ‘better’ than Fractal?

 

[BenIfin]

Go try a Boss GT1000 and the Fractal comes in second place in the ‘immediacy’ race .....

^ Amen to that ! :)

 

[James Freeman]

My real amps into a load box, Helix and Fractal are pretty much interchangeable.
I don't care anymore.

 

[JCW308]

Never had complaints about either.

Same. They're both fantastic.

 

[JCW308]

Different, slightly sure. But to some the ‘winner’ is the opposite. There is a subjective preference factor.
Go try a Boss GT1000 and the Fractal comes in second place in the ‘immediacy’ race but does that make Boss modeling ‘better’ than Fractal?

Yes, my main gigging rig has been GT-1000 since it was first released. I totally agree.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

My real amps into a load box, Helix and Fractal are pretty much interchangeable.
I don't care anymore.

Yep, set all 3 up side by side, match tones and A/B/C between them. You cannot accurately tell which feels better or worse.

All Line 6 really needs to do is update some of the older amp models with their latest tech. Some older amps have a distinctive high end fizz that gives them away, and the newer models have improved on this. In use it’s pretty minor, but it’s something to work on. They would already be well aware of the fact that the current modelling is superior to the older one, they don’t need me or anyone else to tell them.

All in all though, I think Line 6 have a much better idea on what to do going forwards than anyone could possibly speculate in this thread.

 

[Achilles]

However the general consensus (?) seems to be that the Fractal "feels" better.

My old Kemper and now the Tonex both feel/felt better than any modeling platform I've ever tried.

I'm convinced that profiling and/or capturing yields a better 'feel' than modeling can.

imo - ymmv

 

[mikah912]

Even if you could somehow objectively quantify what "feel" is, how, then, do you determine what has a better feel?