" Feel " ...... FM3 -vs- Helix ..... thoughts (?)

[Boudoir Guitar]

I guess I'm just trying to get an idea of what L6 can or could do [if anything] to improve the feel of the Helix compared to the Fractal given that there seems to be a consensus (?) that the Fractal "feels" better (?)

When was the last time you owned Helix and Fractal together at the same time? You've been around these parts long enough to know (1) there is not a consensus. If you think there is a consensus, you are just applying your own personal bias to what you've read on forums. (2). Even if there is a consensus, it means nothing. The only way to know if YOU think there is a difference between the two units is to play them side by side at the very same time. "I played Fractal yesterday and Helix today" or even ten minute apart...yeah, that's meaningless.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Even if you could somehow objectively quantify what "feel" is, how, then, do you determine what has a better feel?

BY CONSENSUS!!!!!!!!

 

[JCW308]

Even if you could somehow objectively quantify what "feel" is, how, then, do you determine what has a better feel?

You use your human built-in senses. It's really amazing. And low and behold, it's a real thing. WOWEEEE!

 

[Achilles]

Even if you could somehow objectively quantify what "feel" is, how, then, do you determine what has a better feel?

Maybe better or worse are the wrong descriptors.
Can we all agree on how some amps feel tight and immediate while others feels slower and saggy?

We each have preferences so 'better' would be a model/profile that feels most similar to our favorite amp?

 

[Frankencat]

FM3 all day.

 

[James Freeman]

All in all though, I think Line 6 have a much better idea on what to do going forwards than anyone could possibly speculate in this thread.

I think so too.

 

[sashimi]

He has a point about the consensus. You’ll see a lot more people saying fractal blows helix away than vice verse. Maybe that’s just people justifying their big purchase, maybe it’s because more big acts use fractal than helix. It actually stopped me from buying a stomp for a long time because I thought it would be inferior. I’m glad I got over that though because the stomp sounds really good, and the FM3 is the only fractal device I’m really interested in due to both price and size, and it has some compromises I can’t get past - no variable input impedance, latency issues when used as an interface. But if you read the fractal forums they’ll have you believe helix is unusably bad.

I think the amps I use in helix are great, and they are not all new models. But I lean toward cleaner sounds and don’t touch the high gain stuff. I think where helix really needs to improve is still in a lot of the cabs. A lot of them sound almost like analog cab sims and need lots of high and low cuts. I get better results faster with york IRs.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

He has a point about the consensus. You’ll see a lot more people saying fractal blows helix away than vice verse.

Even if that fact is statistically true (which my gut says probably is, but I've worked with data and numbers enough to know how often my gut is wrong once all the numbers are actually tabulated -- we read what we believe), my gut also says that there are at least as many people that either prefer Helix or are "meh, they're pretty equal" as there are people that say fractal blows helix away.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Even if that fact is statistically true (which my gut says probably is, but I've worked with data and numbers enough to know how often my gut is wrong once all the numbers are actually tabulated -- we read what we believe), my gut also says that there are at least as many people that either prefer Helix or are "meh, they're pretty equal" as there are people that say fractal blows helix away.

Do you even Willowdale, bro?

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Do you even Willowdale, bro?

I dunno, lemme go ask my wife

 

[CrazyD]

The simplest answer I can give here is, the issue is mostly the auto input impedance ('Guitar In-Z') circuit in the Helix, which Fractal doesn't have.
Set it fixed to 1M and you have the same "feel" on both.
There are other settings, all to your liking

 

[ballhawk]

I think we should settle this right here on this thread. We will do it scientifically.

First, let's define feel........ uhh.... nevermind. As far as consensus, I find that a dangerous path to tread.

 

[CrazyD]

Helix provides the possibility to act like a pedal board would work, which means also including the different impedance settings. For people that have a pedal board know, that pedals can have different influence on the tone.
Using a modeller this is not so obvious, and I believe the default setting is set to 'Auto'. If a pedal reduces the impedance to 250k, instead of using 1M, it will sound dull and flat lacking body. Somebody not knowing this will say, the sound sucks or the 'feel' is lifeless, etc.

 

[JiveTurkey]

TBF; most of us have had this conversation 197,336 times since 2015 or so.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Helix provides the possibility to act like a pedal board would work, which means also including the different impedance settings. For people that have a pedal board know, that pedals can have different influence on the tone.
Using a modeller this is not so obvious, and I believe the default setting is set to 'Auto'. If a pedal reduces the impedance to 250k, instead of using 1M, it will sound dull and flat lacking body. Somebody not knowing this will say, the sound sucks or the 'feel' is lifeless, etc.

FM9 and Axe Fx III also have this. Should we invite Tito in to discuss how "auto" should work?

 

[metropolis_4]

Personally, I still can’t stand the feel of Helix amps. They’re better than they used to be but still just don’t feel right to me.

I don’t know exactly why or what would need to be done to make them better, but I can’t un-feel what I experience when I play through them

 

[holoholo]

FM9 and Axe Fx III also have this. Should we invite Tito in to discuss how "auto" should work?

He's busy at the moment currently adding .4dB to his stomp loops.

 

[paisleywookiee]

My real amps into a load box, Helix and Fractal are pretty much interchangeable.
I don't care anymore.

Same. When I go back to Logic a week later, I forget which tool I used to record my shitty riffs and subpar bass lines.

 

[Enchilada Jones]

I have a Soldano Astro 20 that I usually keep loaded down into a TwoNotes Captor X feeding stereo line out into interface/monitors.
I initially thought, using it that way, it would be like just another high end modeler but it consistently sounded/felt better than Helix Floor and FM9 did. Once I was sure it wasn't a honeymoon phase I sold them and the Kemper Stage.
I kept the Kemper Player and UA Lion and a few other small things for convenience of size.

I don't know why the Astro 20 outshines the modeling gear through monitors. It just does. And through real guitar speakers...fuhhgettaboudit...

 

[Frodebro]

Helix feels a hell of a lot worse than the FM3 when you drop it on your foot.