Reverb & delay - Helix vs Fractal

[holoholo]

Fractal's cloud cumulocunnilingus style verbs are divine.

I do love HX's transistor tape delay. I haven't been able to dial that one in yet.

 

[banned]

I think Helix's reverbs need improvement on the ethereal, epic scale type reverbs. Also I feel Drive pedal models could be better.

 

[dk_ace]

When you guys say helix reverbs are sub par, are we talking about the new ones or just as a whole?

I pretty much exclusively use the new dynamic reverbs and hot springs. To me, those sound as good as my other points of reference for good digital reverbs, like strymon and some UAD plugins. I can’t speak for the hall reverb as I don’t use it, and I don’t really mess with the legacy reverbs, but imo dynamic plate and hot springs sound as good as anything else I’ve tried. But maybe I just don’t have great ears, idk. And I haven’t tried fractal yet.

I’m just trying to decide if I really want to dive in to fractal with an FM9, or if I just want to spend half as much and get a helix LT, because I already know I like what helix has to offer.

All of them, new and old. There are useable models both in legacy and the newer ones, but none of them really compare to what fractal has to offer. I’m no fan of hot springs, I thought the 63 spring model was better. Neither of them compares to the springs in fractal or my Ventris though.

If you want to get a helix because you like the helix, then do it. It has a lot of great things to offer. But if you’re looking for the best delays and reverbs, it ain’t got that.

D

 

[KHAAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!!!!!]

Fractal's cloud cumulocunnilingus style verbs are divine.

Cliff is a master cunning linguist.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

To my ears a lot of the reverb and delay I am hearing in fractal demos, while objectively very good, it maybe doesn’t align with my taste so much, I lean more toward a wobbly analog or tape delay into an amp with spring reverb kind of sound, or a cab with a short room reverb, bordering on lo-fi, which I think the helix excels at. Everything kind of melts together. Whereas the fractal time effects sound super highly defined, it sounds like post processing.

Is it just a matter of moving the delays and reverbs before the amp/cab or selecting the correct ones to get closer to that pedalboard sound on fractal? Or is that hi-fi lexicon rack sound inherent to fractal reverb and delay?

Fractal spring reverb (forget which one) in front of amp/cab, with a fairly subtle room reverb block after the amp/cab. The goal was to just sound like a Fender amp with built-in spring reverb, nothing super effect-y. Go to the end if you want to hear it hit kinda hard:

 

[iaresee]

To my ears a lot of the reverb and delay I am hearing in fractal demos, while objectively very good, it maybe doesn’t align with my taste so much, I lean more toward a wobbly analog or tape delay into an amp with spring reverb kind of sound, or a cab with a short room reverb, bordering on lo-fi, which I think the helix excels at. Everything kind of melts together. Whereas the fractal time effects sound super highly defined, it sounds like post processing.

Is it just a matter of moving the delays and reverbs before the amp/cab or selecting the correct ones to get closer to that pedalboard sound on fractal? Or is that hi-fi lexicon rack sound inherent to fractal reverb and delay?

Fractal spring reverbs wobble like the real thing

 

[Tito83]

IMO Helix is ok/good, Fractal is really really good... Still not really great IMO.

I don't think it's inherent. I get what you're saying, but for example I think the spring reverb on the Fractal stuff is pretty cool. On Helix is... passable.

But I have to say that the spring reverb on the UA Dream is on another level. For effects, UA and Eventide, closely followed by Strymon, are still noticeably better IMO.

 

[sashimi]

Fractal spring reverb (forget which one) in front of amp/cab, with a fairly subtle room reverb block after the amp/cab. The goal was to just sound like a Fender amp with built-in spring reverb, nothing super effect-y. Go to the end if you want to hear it hit kinda hard:

Is there a subtle tremolo on this? That’s not just the spring right?

Sounds great

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Is there a subtle tremolo on this?

Sounds great

Always. Post-cab reverb was a medium hall, apparently, instead of room.

 

[Alex Kenivel]

Digital "Kick" parameter or GTFO.

 

[Aleksi]

I found that for basic reverbs for guitar, HX and FM3 were nearly interchangeable. Dynamic plate at normal settings sounded pretty much the same as the plates on FM3, and I could not tell just by listening which one was on. I found it easier to get a smooth tail for super long reverbs from dynamic plate, the high frequencies just always seem to bounce around in the reverb too much on FM3. Fractal mayyyyybe works a bit better for more demanding sources like synths, where HX reverbs get muddy and metallic quickly. Both pale compared to Meris Maybe the real Fractal units are far superior and it's just the FM3?

 

[Orvillain]

Even for bread and butter reverbs, Fractal kills Helix I'm afraid - at least for me.

I'm not a big fan of Eventide control systems, but their sounds are good. Meris MercuryX has a lot of great sounds in it, stuff that Fractal doesn't do as nicely. Strymon reverbs are a tad better than Helix, but not as good as Meris nor Fractal IMO.

Delay is where the playing field is a bit more level. Helix, Fractal, Meris, Eventide, Strymon, and Boss, all have great delay algorithms across the board; depending on your tastes.

So for me... with reverb there are quality level differences and for delay there are flavour level differences.

If you want to cruft up the Fractal reverbs, set the quality level to economy, and use the EQ to roll off some high frequencies, and put it in front of the amp.

I have to say, I did like UA's Golden Reverberator pedal quite a bit. But it really is just a posh RV-5 in terms of feature set.

 

[dronerstone]

Can only speak for Helix, but I did struggle with both the HX and Legacy reverbs/delays for some time, until I decided to A/B against pedals whenever possible.

And that helps a lot, actually. I noticed how when a pedal sounds "better", it's also giving a mild jump in volume and EQ boost/cut.

Ever since I realized that, I can usually dial them in close enough and be content with the outcome.

Example "real" reverbs/delays over here:

- Subdecay Super Spring Theory
- Digitech Polara (esp. Spring/Plate algos)
- Fender 1994 Twin Amp tank
- LAB Series Accutronics tank
- Ampeg VT-22 tank (very unique/difficult)
- Catalinbread Belle Epoch
- Way Huge Aqua Puss MKII
- Mooer Ana Echo (DM-2 clone)

 

[laxu]

Can only speak for Helix, but I did struggle with both the HX and Legacy reverbs/delays for some time, until I decided to A/B against pedals whenever possible.

And that helps a lot, actually. I noticed how when a pedal sounds "better", it's also giving a mild jump in volume and EQ boost/cut.

Ever since I realized that, I can usually dial them in close enough and be content with the outcome.

Example "real" reverbs/delays over here:

- Subdecay Super Spring Theory
- Digitech Polara (esp. Spring/Plate algos)
- Fender 1994 Twin Amp tank
- LAB Series Accutronics tank
- Ampeg VT-22 tank (very unique/difficult)
- Catalinbread Belle Epoch
- Way Huge Aqua Puss MKII
- Mooer Ana Echo (DM-2 clone)

If you enjoy that, try putting e.g the Kinky Boost drive in front of the Transistor Tape. I got pretty close to the Belle Epoch Deluxe delay sound like that. Don't remember the Kinky Boost settings anymore though.

Fractal users might want to play around with the Compander feature.

 

[dronerstone]

If you enjoy that, try putting e.g the Kinky Boost drive in front of the Transistor Tape.

Yup, true.
I tried several, and ended up liking the Retro Reel (very mild settings) best for this purpose.

 

[FuzzyAce]

I've yet to go super deep diving in the VP4 delays and reverbs but what I'm hearing so far is .
I have an HX stomp and Native too and I use more of the delays than reverbs there. I do like the room and ambient verbs in HX, but I don't use a ton of verb on most things anyways. If I were going for ambient textures and tweak-ability functions, VP4 would more than likely get picked. But music is music, either would work when used in a particular context.

 

[Lysander]

I'd say most Fractal reverbs and delays are dialed in more like rack or studio effects. That doesn't mean they have to be, as you have plenty of parameters to make them something else.

This, very much so. Both Fractal and Helix effects sound great to my ears; the difference is mostly that Fractal tends to behave (and program) like rack gear, while Helix is usually better at stompbox modelling.

I've been seriously considering re-investing in an FM3 recently, if only for those lush ambient reverbs/choruses...

 

[Orvillain]

I don't really agree with the distinct between "rack" and "stompbox" tbh. I know it is sort of short hand for high quality and low quality, or high definition and complex versus crufty but simple and musical.... but I think the distinction is pretty meaningless.

 

[Rock Chalk]

I like chocolate ice cream.....vanilla's pretty good too. I also like eating ice cream with a metal spoon, but a plastic one works too.

Decisions decisions...........

 

[Lysander]

I know it is sort of short hand for high quality and low quality, or high definition and complex versus crufty but simple and musical.... but I think the distinction is pretty meaningless.

Oh, sorry, i wasn't implying this at all.

I just think Helix models individual effect stompboxes better than Fractal - drives included. If you prefer a hand-on-pedals experience, Helix is IMHO the way to go. Crave those sweet Lexicon PCM70 tones? Go Fractal.